The 1881 - News, Information and Ideas

When you say you would love to join in, is there any reason why you don't?

 

My own situation was similar to yours. I sat with a big group of friends for many years over that side of the Rookery, more than happy in my little backwater. Then the 1881 came along and people were standing in front of me and my lad, to his detriment. My group of friends have been shuffling sideways as seats become available, whilst I took the leap to the SEJ stand so that we could relax and enjoy the match and the 1881. Best thing I ever did.

 

watfordfcmoose, if you enjoy the atmosphere going on around you with us, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

 

If i still went to Home games and had a season ticket , i`d be snapping their hand off for a free upgrade to the Upper GT , being a miserable ******* an all

 

Watford Observer - The 1881

I think they've done a great job, flares aside (I know that's just a few idiots who may not even be part of the 1881).

But I have an issue with the article in the watford observer online that says over £5,000 has been raised. In this period of austerity, or even in more prosperous times, I'm struggling to see who would choose to donate for some flags to be bought instead of donating their money to something more important like charities for the homeless or cancer research

If you want to create a better atmosphere, sing louder. But surely there are tings more deserving of donation. Maybe I'm just a miserable ba$**** though.

 

When Oxfam directors exchange their Ferrari's for Fords I might agree with you but there are so many unworthy charities these days

They say charity begins at home .... they were right! ('cept this season it begins away).

 

I have donated and believe it's money well spent. Without donations the Poppy display wouldn't have happened. I'm glad I was part of it.

 

The poppy display was really good so that's a fair point. I personally wouldn't give my money for a display, but I definitely see your point

 

I very rarely dislike posts, but have to make an exception for this.

 

I have donated a few times John , I care about all things watford fc , I dont care too much about human beings far too many on the planet , my wife has beaten cancer , I have lost a child , have seen some very dark times as I am sure others have , my watford fc family has helped me through, thats why I give to 1881 instead of others .
Hope that made some sense .
PS I do give to some doggy re homing charities as well , but thats my lot .

 

Haven't you forgotten your UKip subcriptions? .... Now if ever there was a waste of money !!

 

I earnt the money, I choose what I spend it on. I love what the 1881 have achieved and it needs funding

I really hate people telling me what the right thing to do with my own money is

 

The strange thing about your argument is that it is fundamentally far simpler than you imply.

Those displays cost money. If the money is not available, they will not happen. If these donations are not made, therefore, they would not happen. You are essentially saying, and yes, this is a somewhat reductive argument, that no one should spend money on any form of entertainment before all problems that charities exist to deal with have been solved/you have donated to every charity.

Presumably, like most people, you examine your finances and decide what proportion of it you can afford to/feel like giving to charity. Its a personal calculation, different for each individual person.

If you don't feel it's important enough to donate money to, that's absolutely fine, and entirely your prerogative. I don't, however, see what it has to do with how much or whether people donate to charity. They are separate issues, and in actual fact, whether you agree with it or not, you have benefitted from having a better-supported club known for having a better atmosphere on game day amongst the footballing fraternity, enjoyed the spectacles that they have created, and to however small a degree, are enjoying Premier League football this season partly as a result of it.

To complain about anyone being prepared to donate seems a tad mealy-mouthed, as a result.

 

I may not agree with everything the 1881 does but they enhanced my experience last season and the Poppy display was one of the best things that I've seen associated with the club. They were well worth the donation I chose to make.

Incidentally, I also donate to charities of my choice. That matter to me. So no one has lost out from me donating to the 1881.

 

This. I'll spend my hard-earned how I like. Selected charities benefit from time-to-time. The 1881 benefits.

Whilst matchdays were always a highlight of my week anyway, the improved experience associated with forming of The 1881 has made that even greater. This can't happen without money afterall.

 

Yes I get you're point, and on reflection my initial post does come across as high and mighty, which wasn't the intention.

And it does suggest that I'm telling people what they should or shouldn't do with their money, which I know is none of my business, and will say again that I thought the rememberance day display was great which makes my argument pointless in many respects.

I won't pretend though that I'm not frustrated by the lack of funding that some great causes (especially those that are community led) don't receive and would really do great things with the same £5,000

 

Jesus surprised this bloke who posted this is generous enough to pay for the Internet

 

Hi john. Welcome to the boards and don't let the reaction put you off posting in the future, even if it's controversial.

imay disagree with you but I like your enthusiasm.

 

Spot on, a friend of mine used to help Bernardos organise collections and the regional manager (in charge of maybe 3/4 collection centres) was driving a Bentley Continental. God knows what the national managers are driving.

OP, we could talk about skimping and giving to charity all day. Do you eat out? Drink alcohol? Smoke even? Maybe skimp on these and give to charity instead?

Ultimately people will spend what they want where they want. Be it recreation or good causes.

 

Hi John, and thanks for your message. It's always good to read arguments for and against, and I understand why you felt the need to post this. I would like to answer this if I may ?

You're quite right when you say that £5000 could do a lot for a a charity. When I set the gofundme page up I wasn't expecting much, not that I don't have confidence that the majority of fans know that these things don't just appear, but because I and a group of lifelong Watford fans have done so for nothing, and continue to do so, and even spending our own personal money to help things along. We don't expect every fan to help, we don't even expect every fan to like us. What I've seen over the last couple of seasons has been nothing short of remarkable. From things like all coming together when the team really needed us (Huddersfield at home springs to mind), fans that used to go alone, now go with their children and these children gaining new friends. I've received lots of emails over the last 2 years that suggest that what we have done has helped them through some personal hardship (a member on here) one such email reads:

As a disabled wfc fan of over 20 years, I wanted to contact you regarding what you did for me last week at the vic. When you held the big flag over our heads, I've never been so proud as you walked over to me and asked if I wanted to help. I've always felt like I've just been seen as "a disabled fan, he sits in his wheelchair over there" but you made me feel like a proper fan that day. Topping off your generosity by giving me one of your scarfs and pin badge after the flag was taken back down.

For this, I will always be grateful. If you ever need help again, I would be delighted to help you.

Paul.


Now while we are not a charity, things like this will and does bring fans together. Whatever color, creed, religion, gender or disability. We will continue to do what we believe is the right thing to do, because the situations like the one above occurs every home game now. If by asking for a donation (anything can be given, even 10p ) and this helps to raise some money for another flag or badge that helps create another situation like that again.....then surely it's worth asking for ?

I and everyone involved in creating days like the poppy display, Boro game etc love this club so much. Becoming the best fans in the UK is not a question of if, but when.

I hope you read this in the way I intend it to come across.

Roy

 

That's simply brilliant, Roy. Absolutely bravo. I know you've heard "thanks" many times for your work but let me say it again. And, to respond to John's initial point (which I'm sure was sincere and well-intended), I think what the 1881 does at its best is build community. There is lots of interesting research about the value of a sense of shared commitment and interest. When people feel connected to other people, they are typically happier, feel more empowered and are more likely to engage in positive behavior. We are, at our essence, social creatures (couldn't have survived on the savannah as individuals) and we are happiest and most effective when we are part of communities. Will the 1881 cure cancer? No, but it will help make a bunch of strangers into a group of people who see each other as fellow travelers and even friends. In a small way, that makes us better people.

 

I just spent £72 on two away tickets to Everton with travel, etc it will be a £140 - £200 day out. With so many good causes out there that could do so much more with the money, I am now seriously considering if next year I should give up going to football altogether.

 

Lovely story Roy and thank you for posting. It's really good to hear positive side effects of you actions. Please keep up the great work that you do, it really has made The Vic a special place. There is still a lot of work to be done to improve the the SEJ and UGT so please don't forget about us. Particularly the SEJ as we are the ones opposite the main TV positions and in front of the press.

It would give me great pleasure waving a flag in front of Martin Samuels. Although I suspect it may become a problem for the club if there is too much activity in front of the hacks during play . A surfer before the game like the end of last season was great and will encourage people to join in the singing.

Richard, welcome to the board and I'm glad that you see the other side. I'm still not sure your original post wasn't a wind up though. I give to charities every month but it doesn't stop me buying an ST and follow the club away. I am far from wealthy but making a donation of any amount will help our WFC family.

So everyone, spread the message and share Roy's post. Everyone that follows WFC can afford a pound. Think how much that will raise for a very worthy cause.

 

Roy what's the plan for the WBA game? I think the best I've ever seen the rookery was the Middlesbrough game, i'd love that to be replicated for the MOTD cameras. A whole Rookery bouncing with the flags would be great.

 

That's the plan !

 

Think this a very well thought out response to John Ralpho's claim that supporters money would be better spent on charities. If you take his argument further, think how much money we could give to charity if we didn't spend it on a bevy before/after the match, programme, food etc and even ultimately not going to matches at all.

 

I have the feeling the original posters point was more that we can somehow raise £5k for what (on the face of it) is an "improve the atmosphere at a football match" but many charities cannot raise that sort of money. Now as we all know, and Roy has expertly said, it goes a lot deeper than that but I can understand some peoples frustration at lack of funds for certain causes. The problem is that sort of thinking can basically make you go mad.

As Oscar Calling has said, how far do you take it? Do you ditch all unnecessary pleasures in order to donate to all worthy causes? I personally regularly put 50p-£1 in most charitable pots when I have change, donate to most fund raisers and donated to the 1881 when it started up.

However, am I about to ditch my BT Infinity so I can donate the £30 I save to charity? Despite what could be argued would be morally a good thing to do, no.

 

PS

www.gofundme.com/tt7yw3c

 

Like MOTD are going to show that!

 

Football First might. Don't know about anyone else but that's where I'll be watching most of the highlights. MOTD, like the FL Show will just be for the laughs.

 

I can't wait for Danny Murphy's comments on Watford during MOTD this season.

 

would it be possible/ would club allow for collection bins to be placed inside ground for 1881 donations? I would and am sure many others would dump a bit of change in them every home game.

 

Uncalled for.

People donate to charities of their choice.

People donate to the 1881 if it's their choice.

We live in a society where we have freedom of choice and donating to one does not preclude donating to another.

I am very grateful for what Roy has done to improve the Vic experience and agree with all the comments regarding 'a sense of community making us better people', and his disabled fan response is heartwarming.

We just have to see what the incident at Wolves did to galvanise the WFC community in our support for Nic - and the fact that the 1881 existed at all made that 'community support' easier to organise, more public and more powerful.

So I don't believe it is right to criticise support of the 1881 especially as the Vicarage Road experience is therapy for thousands.
I am a proud part of that WFC community especially when I see a poppy display or 44 minute applause for Nic or a sea of flags.

Even Jesus Christ himself said the poor and the sick will always be with us. (as a disciple was criticising a woman for using expensive oil on Jesus' hair when the money could be used for the sick - and guess which disciple was doing the criticising)!

Sermon over.

 

Peter?

 

Haha - that was quick - I was wondering about your response to that Moog - close but not a winner, you are the weakest link..

And Godfather, the 'uncalled for' was my view on your response to Norway.
Your other comment regarding unworthy charities and fat cat charity directors I agree with.