Watford Fc - Set Piece Shamble Experts

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by NathWFC, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. No, its read left to right. It's basically "attack, .....attack, ......attack, attack, attack"
     
  2. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    take it 2 the politicks section m8
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  3. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    I don't actually think Holebas' delivery was that bad. It's just it's bloody difficult to hit a ball that just skims over the near post man at pace. Look how many times Deeney heads corners clear, it's not unique to us.

    It's just very frustrating that we keep trying to do it when it is such a difficult skill, rather than using a more creative approach involving different starting positions, blocking or a completely different approach.
     
  4. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I very much doubt it's budgetary. Considering one goal from one corner could very easily equal 1 point extra, one extra place and over a million extra in prize money, it's clear that the reason they don't reply, is arrogance, or indeed that they think their internal coaches are better than you are.

    Frankly, the evidence is there to see that it would behove them to try something/anything. Right now if some wizened old crone offered magic corner beans or a free kick harp, the club should at least give it a whirl.
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  5. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Perhaps. But the point remains our set piece delivery and lack of productivity isn’t a stick to beat our strikers with.
     
  6. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Surely the club already has its own analysis team and statisticians? Surely they have full time employees sifting through the data giving insights across everything?

    At some point someone is going to figure out the % chance of scoring from a corner is less than a hoofed goal kick and hoik corners right back to their own keeper. It would confuse the opposition to be fair.
     
  7. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Yes, it's another failing of the owners and recruitment. It suggests that they either have no-one who is capable of doing the quick bit of analysis on this thread (in which case what are they paying all these assistant coaches and analysts for?) or they've done the analysis and they don't think it's a problem to be by far and away the worst team at set pieces when you're at real risk of going down.

    And finally, it's also the fault of the head coaches, notwithstanding them having their hands tied with a squad without a single top quality set piece taker. It's then up to them to earn their corn and do something different. Even if they tried something and it didn't work it would be better than the current brain-dead efforts.
     
    põder and Jumbolina like this.
  8. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    You'd have thought so, but where is the evidence of their work?
     
  9. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Yes, his name is Filippo. He knows all.
     
  10. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    FTFY.
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  11. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Has that **** Reids left my club yet?
     
    reids likes this.
  12. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Well, it is, their lack of movement off the ball has been a big part of our problem; and this would include set pieces. Movement (and lack of it) affects the set-piece kicking. (And vice versa, of course, - it's a team game).
     
    zztop likes this.
  13. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The players doing the movement (or lack of) is generally the centre backs in the first instance. That obviously doesn’t justify Delefeou/Chalobah/Holebas smashing it into the first man but corners are hardly the sole remit of the strikers in the box.
     
  14. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I'm not an expert by any means but surely there must be an area where putting the ball is going to cause the most amount of difficulty to a defence. In cricket it's called The Corridor of Uncertainty and it's an are where the batsmen are unsure about whether to play at the ball or not. I would think there must be an area of uncertainty in football. Something between the pen spot and the six yard box where a keeper is unlikely to come for it but players can attack it. It doesn't have to be drilled in at pace as attacking the ball will provide pace but surely a professional footballer can kick a football under no pressure to roughly that area. Simple really
    @reids, you're fired
     
    reids likes this.
  15. Trouble is that our CFs and CBs are worse at attacking the ball than most of our opponents. That means that just a basic approach to put the ball in the right area won't work. Hence the repeated attempts to get a near post flick, for which you don't need to be tall, and effectively randomises where the ball will go and stops big CHs having the time to line up the path of the ball and get underneath it. However the cross needs to be pretty accurate and we're not up to it it seems. We need some new ideas/plays to either get the ball to someone with space in the box or a shot from the edge of the box.
     
  16. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Corridor of Uncertainty is my new band name
     
  17. reids

    reids Squad Player

    You are definitely correct, although it depends on the defensive system used. I had the same idea - I realised every team uses at least 1 zonal marker when defending, some of the more common ones are below:

    [​IMG]

    So then I decided to see if the locations of these zonal markers affected the location of where goals were scored from. I looked at 1200 corner goals from a variety of different leagues and mapped the goal location, the assist location (if not direct from the corner), the method scored by (head/foot), whether it was direct or not and of course the defensive setup used. It basically proved that were was a "corridor of uncertainty" for every single set-up (each different) which now heavily factors into my routines and recommendations.
     
  18. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Surely there is more of a chance of a goal doing this rather than the first defender heading clear under no pressure. I think the phrase commonly used is "put it in the mixer"
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  19. Of course but I assume they have tried something else for the reasons given but given the poor execution, anything is better than what they are doing now....
     
  20. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I literally have no idea why I gave those two words a capital letter. I feel ashamed and embarrassed, I've let myself, my family and the forum down. If you need me I'll be outside giving myself a stern talking to.
     
  21. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    It wasn't meant to be a dig on the way you typed it, more the sound of the words themselves. I didn't even notice you used capitals tbh.
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  22. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    If you ever want to do betting tips on things that happen during a game send me a pm, will gladly give you 10% of any profit.
     
  23. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Sadly the corner markets are limited to number of corners - otherwise I definitely would've exploited that already!
     
  24. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    I would be shocked if you didnt have stats for average corners, throw ins and free kicks etc though. Seems like stat collection is a bit of a super power for you.
     
  25. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Ah yeah, I have those but they can also be found easily online as well (like footcharts.co.uk)
     
  26. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    Reminds me of the chant in the Mike Keen days..."we'd rather have a throw-in, we never score from a corner". Alan Garner's long throws created a lot more chances than our corners did.
     
  27. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    I think a lot of the problem lies with a lack of adequate blocking activity by those who are not the target for the corner; it is almost as important as the quality of the original delivery.
     
  28. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Still haven't scored from a corner. Reids out!!!
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  29. reids

    reids Squad Player

    :(
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  30. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Keeping myself occupied during all this by watching every single corner taken in the league this season and mapping it into a dashboard (this is one of the things I offer clubs) that I'll be releasing for free once finished:

    https://public.tableau.com/profile/stuart.reid3110#!/vizhome/PLCornerDashboard1920/Dashboard1

    Feel free to have a play around with it - adding all the teams attacking data alphabetically (currently on Everton) so will be another couple of weeks until it's all finished!
     
    hornetboy1 likes this.
  31. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Schoolboy error. Always start with Watford then work backwards.
     
    reids likes this.
  32. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Release for free? Surely you should just give it to Watford first to help us out?

    Is there not a way to select to view just one type of action? e.g. just view 'Shot on Target'? The screen can get a bit messy meaning it's difficult to find the info you might wish to look for.
     
  33. reids

    reids Squad Player

    I'd be surprised if Watford already didn't have something similar!

    Yeah you can do that, if you click outcome and then de-select everything (or just click all to de-select everything) except for the criteria you want then it will display just that :)
     
  34. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Giraldi’s Tableau is in his mind man. He doesn't need fancy graphs or statistics. He knows it all.
     
    reids likes this.
  35. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Where does this guy Tableau play and is he represented by that dodgy Belgian super agent? If
     

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