Watford Fc - Set Piece Shamble Experts

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by NathWFC, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Honestly, we deserve to go down purely for our disgusting incompetence in this area.

    There cannot be a professional team in the country that consistently takes as weak, pathetic corners as we do.
  2. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    To be so poor over so many seasons under so many managers is a lack of professionalism and application. It really is disgraceful.
    Chumlax and wfcmoog like this.
  3. Crezzy95

    Crezzy95 Academy Graduate

    Can't beat the first man every time, laughable
    Chumlax likes this.
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    We might as well just offer to give a goal kick instead !
  5. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It's very hard to kick the ball past the first man. He's very tall.
    Sahorn likes this.
  6. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Probably is for Palace...
  7. We make Massina run all the way from left back to take a corner on the right and he takes a poor one every time.

    Doucoure left it for him at one point and he had to run all the way over. I thought to myself, why don't you just take it your bloody self?! Save Massina's energy and pulling him out of position.

    Somebody during training needs to spend 3 hours a day practising corners FFS.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  8. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Yes, and he keeps standing in the way.
  9. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    I think they’re all too tired after the 4 hours a day shooting training.
    cyaninternetdog likes this.
  10. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    The reason we're so poor at corners is simple. We don't have any single player that can take a good set-piece and we do not have anyone that can attack a flighted ball. Put those two elements together and this is why we've not scored a single goal from a corner in over a year.

    But this is where we are as a club. We do things to extremes. When there's a bad record to be had, we tend to be the team it's attached to. Then on the flip side, we're the only side to beat Liverpool. This is how we flow.
    Maninblack and wfc4ever like this.
  11. I wonder how close we actually were to signing Ward-Prowse.
  12. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    For once, I agree with you.
  13. Mazzereth

    Mazzereth Academy Graduate

  14. Very watfordy.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  15. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    You joke, but that would give us a 50/50 chance of getting the ball back and building an attack, rather than at present pretty much a 100% chance of losing it.

    I posted it in the other thread, I’m pretty sure under Gracia we used to have a few training ground routines up our sleeves, whey don’t we go back to that? Or just start taking every corner short, there is literally nothing to lose.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  16. reids

    reids Squad Player

    I offered my contact at Watford 50% off my rates for the rest of the season. I've worked with teams with poor deliveries and can factor that in to my work. Didn't get a reply. That's just £250 a month and they didnt wanna do it.
  17. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Early in the season we tried to aim for Dawson but that didn't work.

    He had a very good scoring record at WBA but has he and other defenders even come close to finding the net !
  18. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    What is your view on clubs having specific routines, or instead looking at the opposition on a game by game basis and targeting any weaknesses? Is it fair to say at the moment it looks like we do neither?
  19. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    The worst thing I think is at least one corner for us per game creates a golden chance for the opposition.

    Even Palace yesterday managed to break on us in the second half from another woeful corner and within maybe 15 seconds had won a corner of their own. I can excuse it to an extent against a team like Liverpool but it shouldn’t be happening against teams we’re much of a muchness with.
    Chiswell and Bwood_Horn like this.
  20. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Depends on the club and how much time they wanna spend practicing them (as game by game requires more coaching time) but game by game would be my preference. Couldn't watch yesterdays game so havent seen the corners yet (will watch them back on WyScout later today) but everything about our corners is awful - the movement, the delivery, the lack of set-piece tactics like blocking etc.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  21. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    That pretty much sums up the corners yesterday. I could get a better view second half but there was so little movement from the players in the box and they ended up in two clusters just beyond the front post and a few at the back.

    You'll know better obviously but it feels like we've tried this flick on the near post trick for years without any real success. This is why I think it hits the first man so much, the attempt at some intricate routine that fails 99 times out of 100.

    There was one corner in the first half, taken by Hughes I think, that was floated towards the back post that caused Palace all sorts of problems. We didn't do it again.

    This is also why we are in so much trouble. I look at goals from corners and set pieces as 'cheap goals'. We get none and have to work hard for anything. Cheap goals can change games quickly, like Everton at Vicarage Road and Villa away and we are desperate for some.
  22. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Totally agree and this has been an issue for us for years. It's got nothing to do with the coaches we've had over the years, but it's everything to do with the players we have. Very few of our players want to attack the ball. They just do not have the ability to attack a flighted ball. Only Dawson can do this. He's the only player who is a menace in the opposition box on a regular basis. Cathcart is pathetic in this area. He has scored a couple of goals with headers from corners, but they were both against Spurs last season. Even Deeney scored a goal from a cross against them that season as well, so I put that down more to the feeble nature of Spurs than anything else.

    Most teams who carry a threat from corners, rely on their centre backs to attack the ball. If they don't score directly, they cause mayhem by heading the ball to an area which is not under the defending team's control. Rarely does a Watford player even get his head to the ball. 99% of the time it's routinely cleared by the defending team without any issue at all.

    For a club like Watford that's criminal, to pass up these "soft" goals. We just don't score them, and like you said, they quickly change games, especially in the tight ones like the game we played yesterday.

    It's not just corners, but freekicks direct or indirect. We never cause any problems with these types of delivery and we're really missing a trick. We of course need to improve delivery, but it doesn't mean much unless you have players on the other end willing get a broken nose in order to score with his head.
    Chiswell and GoingDown like this.
  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Funny thing is we are meant to be big, physical and powerful!

    Well that doesn't show it from set plays.
  24. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    GT and his coaches worked on set pieces like a maniac for the good reason it could bring ten 'cheap' goals a season. It's beyond belief that this aspect has not been worked on for several seasons both defending and attacking them. And at the very least getting better deliveries in. A couple of hours extra practice could be very beneficial.

    We have got some height and physical presence but it does not translate into anything concrete. And we do not get the ball in quickly enough at times or enough people into the box. It's hard to score when you have one target in the box only.
  25. reids

    reids Squad Player

    **** it, gonna offer to do it for free.
  26. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    I really think we’d be better off going back to when we regularly did a short pass, then another short pass to the edge of the box. We’ve got a few players like Capoue and Doucoure who can drill a good shot it. It can’t be any worse.
  27. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The arrogant fools will still turn you down.
  28. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Don't do this - it cheapens your product.
    cyaninternetdog and Chumlax like this.
  29. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Gino loves a freebie. But Reids probably has too much attention to detail to fit the role without making Giraldi feel pitiful.
  30. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Also lets me say I've done work for a PL club which is good for the CV tbf. And if I can help us stay up then it's a double win.
  31. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Academy Graduate

    It would be fascinating to see a typical week's training plan in detail. Reids, do you have access to anything like that? Not necessarily Watford but any Premier League or Championship club.

    Because, as supporters, we comment an awful on what the squad does in training really without any real idea what they work on day-to-day, hour-to-hour. We tend to assume that because something doesn't work well on a matchday they must not have been working on it during the week.

    I've seen GT's notebooks and training plans from the 1980s and when Smudger says they worked like maniacs on set pieces, he's not far from wrong. But it was more than just a couple of hours here or there. Watford's training then was (compared to today) relatively simple. It was fitness work, then hours of 'pattern of play' and 'shadow play' lining up as a team against no opponents and mapping out what to do depending on who had the ball and who was where on the pitch – and then hours of 'restarts' practice, as GT called set-pieces. Not just corners and free-kicks but goal kicks and throw-ins too.

    They worked all year round on these basics and certain moves became second nature. The old near post flick-on corner with someone rushing in at the far post was not so much reacting to the play as going through set moves and playing the percentages on the basis that if the ball ended up at the far post one way or other there'd be an easy chance to score.

    But there was one big advantage in the 1980s that has gone now. Every game is filmed, every significant incident is available to coaches and managers to watch. It's not that hard to work out how teams play. If you want to watch all Crystal Palace's corners from the past three months, for example, that material is available. In the 1980s, scouts could only do so much. Watford's scouting was quite extensive for the time and the written notes were detailed but it still wasn't as accessible as seeing film of something happen.

    That's not to say Watford aren't deficient in a key area of creating opportunities from set-pieces, of course.
  32. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Academy Graduate

    We comment an awful lot that should have said. Darn the lack of an edit function.
  33. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Careful Adam Leventhal, you're borderline critical of the club there.
  34. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Nah sadly not, the closest thing I've seen available to that is a rough outline (that a lot of PL managers including Mourinho use) that's attached below. Set-pieces are in my experience usually done on Thursdays or Friday if the game is on Saturday

  35. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Academy Graduate

    Not Adam Leventhal!
    Watford Gav likes this.

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