That **** didn’t even spot the ball rolling out of play (for a throw to us) right under his nose in the first half.
The annoying thing about the penalty decision is that if given there was a chance we may have missed it, Liverpool might have gone on to win 3 zip, and we would all be slating Troy and his woeful spot kicks. However we are playing against a front three that in the current market would easily cost £150 million and we are not getting fair and correct decisions that directly affect the narrative of a hugely important football match. We need all the help we can get against teams like Liverpool, and today like many others we didn't get that help
I’m sure I’m going to get stick for saying it, but some of you are letting the Premier League go to your head. And that’s fair enough, given the international players we have and the riches on offer. But when we were in the Championship and got turned over by Yeovil and others, there were bad decisions but we focused on the fact that on the day, we just weren’t good enough. But now, for some reason this season, for some of us, it’s always due to other factors. Was it a penalty? Probably. Never a red card mind you, as has been mentioned. It’s a poor attempt to play the ball, nothing more. But Liverpool were the better team with a bigger cutting edge. Isn’t the first time and won’t be the last. Sometimes you just aren’t as good as the opposition, even if a decision doesn’t go your way.
Wasn’t expecting a win but disappointed with the result. Who knows whether Denney had been on an international break piss up but looked ineffective. Even with Success and Gray on, we never really looked like scoring in the second half. Thought the 1881 were quiet once Liverpool scored. I’d really love to see some goals from our strikers soon.
The Marriappa foul which led to the free kick for the second Liverpool goal did anyone else think that the Liverpool player fouled Marriappa first or was that just my imagination
Was at the game and sadly Liverpool were clearly the superior side. They didn't even get into full flow. When Milner came on I thought that we would be blessed to have such a player who depressingly is still a cut above anything we had on display. Though well struck, Foster should have done better. Taking Hughes off instead of Capoue was tactical naivety. It could have been 5 or 6 to be honest.
Of course we're not as good as Liverpool, but that doesn't mean they cannot be beaten. But for that to happen you have to play a good game, without mistakes and the officials have to be correct with their decision making. Only then can you beat them. I saw Liverpool beat Fulham last week and Fulham were really unlucky. They scored a goal which would have stood had Liverpool got it in all probability, when the score was 0-0. You cannot beat a side like Liverpool if they get the rub of the green. It's almost an impossible task. These teams are good enough and do not need a helping hand from the officials, but week after week you see the top 6 get handouts so often. All I want to see is justice. I want to see fairness across the board. Next season it will be very interesting to see which sides get the most overturned decisions because of VAR. I will predict it will be us, Burnley and Cardiff (if they are still in the Prem) that will have the most decisions reversed.
Sorry. Goals do affect the momentum of matches. The way tactics are changed and players too. Had we scored the resultant penalty it might have spurred Cesspool to come on at us harder and maybe even win. On the other hand going up a goal would give us something to cling to and fight for and coming to the last few minutes give us chances on the counter. Sorry but what you have said Burnsy is silly. A poor decision affects us just as much in a lower division as it does in the PL although the renumeration at the end of the season is obviously far greater. Such a decision in a lower league might cost us the chance of a playoff spot for instance. None of us are letting the PL go to our head. We don't have a divine right to be in it. We were fortunate the Pozzo's took us over and we are all glad that they did. We certainly are not expecting a glut of silverware and most of us expect us to end up in midtable. That does not excuse the poor officiating in any way. In such a wealthy sport the technology has existed for some time to help the officials including the obviously unfit ones who cannot even keep up with the pace of the modern game. It will be a great day next season when VAR comes in. No doubt there will still be controversies when it is used but the undoubted unconscious bias of referees to a bigger team over a so called smaller one will be removed. And no doubt we will suffer with it as well as we too have escaped decisions that have favoured us like Doucoures handball effort against Southampton.
They did not get into full flow thanks to the well organized defence upfront and in midfield pressing high when needed and flooding back to protect the flanks and centre. I think some of our fans need to wake up and understand we played the match to a tee until the penalty decision.
I didn't see it that way at all. I thought we were good value for a battling draw, and should have been leading at the break. Liverpool got stronger as the game progressed and by the end it was a big margin, but it only ended that way because everything went their way. I've seen football for long enough to know, had we taken the lead in this game, then Watford would have been able to control things much better. Once you go behind against a top side, then you have to attack them and they are brilliant at picking you off on the counter-attack. This is what happened. How often does that free-kick go in? It's more likely to go over the bar than in, but when your luck is out it flies in. It's all about momentum. Once you lose that, or once the opposition get the confidence of getting that first goal, everything changes and they go on to win comfortably.
The right hand flank was glaringly open for much of the first half, like in many home games thanks a certain attacking player never fancying the idea of tracking back.
Okay, I confess I may have gone a bit OTT. But it just seems that every time we’ve lost this season, that some people just can’t accept that we deserved to. We all want referees to be even handed. And I think it’s shameful that they clearly aren’t when teams from the Top 4 or 5 are involved. But that’s not the story of the whole game. What I meant I guess is that there are far more fans quick to jump at the excuse of blaming officials since we’ve been in the PL. I do buy that referees tend to favour the top clubs. That’s the way it’s ALWAYS been though since the PL’s inception, it’s nothing new. What I don’t buy is that somehow we are victims on a bigger scale than anyone else as seems to be suggested at times.
I understand where you are coming from Burnsy. Absolutely. There are games when we lose and the first instinct is to come out with the cliche it was the referees fault. Not the strikers for not converting the chances we had or for a defender failing to realize his opponent is sneaking in behind him or not rising for a header. However today the officials have made a serious misjudgement which has affected the course of the game. And thus in my opinion they deserve the flak. Had we cocked up chances or had the defence been opened up like the proverbial tin can by careless marking or the opposition's slickness on the ball then I would not have complained about the officials but the fact we need a clinical striker and perhaps a better class of defender knowing full well that we might have to make do given the sensible budget constraints Gino has us working under.
Bournemouth at home was a case where we were fairly and roundly beaten. We had a correctly awarded penalty against us and correctly awarded second yellow card for Kabasele which killed the game, and their attack then took advantage. Arsenal away was a case of where we were wasteful in attack and were punished. No complaints there, it was an even game edged by a side with more clinical strikers. Off the top of my head these are two games this where the consensus was it wasn't anything but team vs team rather than outside influences. We don't have a problem when a team has out played or performed. What we ask for is a an even platform for both teams to perform rather than be put at a disadvantage before the game's begun. Both Soton and us suffered similar problems last match as the officials are not of standard and without VAR to help them matters will not improve.
Fully agreed. What I’m trying to say is that the officials have never been 100% of the issue when we’ve lost this season, just one of the factors. But some opinions post-game just talk as if everything would have been different with another referee or a decision going our way. And then that chatter goes into the next pre-game chat...and so on and so forth. Anyway, moving on as I don’t wish to fall out with anyone. Glad to see us give it a go today. But it was just another game that highlights how much we need a better striker and a more solid CB. But we all know that. We can’t change it until January. I think we are doing well regardless of that. The next few weeks I think will tell the story of if we are to fall back into the 10-17th place pack or if we can go with the 6-10th place teams. We seem far more solid than we did heading into this period last season - but goal scoring remains a real issue. Some might disagree but whilst I think we have the best squad we’ve ever had, we have a lot of players that can’t adapt to more than one position in a strong enough and consistent manner. Deulofeu IMO is still a player that plays wide of a 5 man midfield and supports a solo striker. Hughes is not a wide player. Femenia is neither FB nor a winger at present. Doucoure is a far better player with 5 in midfield and is a shadow of the player he was last season in just a 2 man CM. Some players need to adapt quicker to what’s being asked of them.
After just seeing it on TV and the commentators comments, I predict another MOTD meltdown in the next 20 minutes.... What I will say which I didn’t notice at the time...is that Mariappa was shocking for the second. Completely misjudged a lofted ball and looked second rate and then tried to over-compensate by pulling and tugging at Firmino. And Foster should have saved the FK which was neither in the top corner or too high. Was a comfortable height. But he was great before that so it’s hard to be too harsh.
I thought at the time Foster had messed up for the FK, that was a comfortable save for a keeper of his standard. I can only assume he thought Salah was taking it, so had his weight shifted the wrong direction. He should've done better with the first as well. The third he was unlucky though, making a good instinctive save which just fell straight to Firmino. That said, he made some great saves in the first half.
Yes - Foster did seem to have a mixed game but gusss that is life as a goalie for you . Hughes might have gone down easily but he wasn't booked for diving so what did Moss think happened ?
I didn't see anything wrong with the comments to be honest. I thought they were quite fair. Yes, I saw the Mapps problem for the freekick in real time. He got the wrong side of Firmino and it was a bit messy. We were poor marking in the first half as well when Salah had a free header at the back post. But those were minor problems really. Even though we conceded 3 goals, I thought we defended well overall. Cathcart had a great game. We are so much better than we used to be. Even though Foster had a good game, and made some good saves, he should have probably saved the Salah goal. I don't blame him for the freekick so much as he's got to cover both sides from that type of position. It was just a good shot. The last goal was disappointing. We should never have been so overloaded when they were down to 10 men, but then again we're not perfect. I like watching this Watford side more than any other since promotion. It has quality, well organised and hard working. We've lost 5 games, but 3 of those have been against the top 6. We are bound to slip down the table over the next 3 games, which will be a shame, but then I expect us to bounce back strongly.
I don’t mean so much the analysts comments after the game, more the actual commentators who said Hughes was barely touched and made the most of it. Although - and this is more a broad comment, rather than about us and our coverage - but has anyone just seen James Maddison escape a scathing analysis of his 2 stupid yellow cards and his second yellow for as blatant a dive (and therefore cheating) as you’ll see?! Everyone in the MOTD studio happy to gloss over it just because he tweeted an apology. It’s cheating. Pure and simple and everyone in that studio should have been scathing of him. Terrible really. I agree with you about us being far better drilled defensively than last season. Kudos to Gracia for that. Imagine what he could do with CB’s of genuine top half ability...
Would Soton have scored that didallowed goal if we'd been awarded a pen earlier and they had had a player sent off? We'd have had the advantage even if we'd missed the pen
I wonder if any of this would have happened if Graham Salisbury had correctly awarded a penalty and sent off Michael Brown for a foul on Jonathan Hogg against Leeds in that game that time we didn't get promoted. We might have won the FA Cup the season after and finished 9th under Zola with Vydra as top scorer and Forestieri winning Sports Personality Of The Year.
Well, yes. Quantifying posession may disclose something about tactics, but not so much about superiority.
Yes.... Football imitating Life.... Just filling in the time between the cradle and the grave.... Happy days, eh?
Yes but that goal was after the penalty decision, at Fulham would of been to make it 2-0 and today 1-0. Big turning points of those games. Not even mentioned the cup game with spuds. Swings and roundabouts here’s hoping our fortunes change as I’m a believer of things coming around. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lets face it we're not getting anything from City or Liverpool this season, very few teams will. Gracia had a plan and it failed. I'm more concerned with what happened at Newcastle and Southampton, and what will happen at Leicester, teams at our level we should be getting more from. And that fat useless turd of a human being Moss should never ref a game again.
Maddison’s tweet explains exactly the modern style of diving that so many players now perpetrate. He went down anticipating contact from the defender. He did this because he knew that if there had been contact he was likely to get a penalty, even though it wasn’t the actual contact that brought him down. It’s still a dive. Blatant if there’s no contact; apparently acceptable if there is. I know I’ve banged on about this before but, when VAR comes in, it will be the contact or otherwise that is judged, not the dive.
It’s tough for refs to spot & evaluate whether it was a dive (as Willis explains it). Maybe a post match review by a video ref of all potential diving with a retrospective card for offenders.
Exactly. And dare I say it, but Hughes hardly hit the floor naturally yesterday either. Whilst there was contact and I think it was a penalty, his reaction to the contact was hardly natural.
By the same token, Arsenal would have had a penalty when Kabasele fouled Lacazette but he stayed on his feet and Capoue would have been sent off against Palace. Things do even themselves out, but some fans just highlight the things we didn’t get over the things we did.
All speculation. You can’t say for certain that we would have had 3 points rather than 1, as the post to which I was responding suggested. EDIT: I see GoingDown has made that point rather more pithily in #270.
