Watford 0-3 Liverpool 3pm - 24/11/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Steve Leo Beleck, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I'm sure plenty will disagree and accept that its unfair to judge on one game, but one yesterday's evidence, I'd say that van Dyke is better suited to the Premier League than Adrian Mariappa
     
  2. nascot

    nascot First Team

    Harsh.
     
  3. W4BS

    W4BS First Year Pro

    But sadly true
     
  4. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Just watched GoS. They destroyed the assistant for the penalty. They all thought it was a clear penalty, and said the lineman should have flagged and couldn't understand why he didn't.

    That was a major moment that went against us and so important in a game like this.

    They also were critical of Cathcart for the first goal. He left Salah free by running into the space in front of him, leaving Salah unmarked. For the second goal they were critical of Foster's positioning. He was too far over to his right. I think both comments were fair.
     
  5. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Beaten fairly by a far superior team.

    We go again against Leicester.
     
  6. HELGO

    HELGO Reservist

    i feel that the B’muff forward line would have destroyed Liverpool in the first 15 mins.
    Worrying that our so called forward line is so very,very poor. What was with Delefou having a tantrum when he came off? Hardly put in a shift when he was on.

    ..
     
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  7. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    In the WC it was used to successfully correct a decision where Neymar was touched and dived, but it wasn't a foul. Referrers will be able to judge but with the benefit of replays. They will still need to know the rules and there's still a chance they will get things wrong if they're an idiot, but it just gives them far more chance of getting things right with more views.
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  8. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    You're entitled to your opinion, but if have Maps, Kabasele, Cathcart, Prodl, Britos and Kaboom ahead of him any day
     
  9. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    VAR will level the playing field.

    However we all already know the first VAR mess up will involve us getting screwed over.
     
  10. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    There will still be a bias.

    The simple fact is that any benefit of the doubt will always benefit the bigger side, because the media fallout will be so much bigger.

    A failure to send someone off for a foul on Aguero or to award a penalty to Hazzard will fill a full week of sports pages. The same for Will Hughes or Deeney will not. The ref therefore would be mad to risk being pilloried by every media source going for taking a chance on a 50/50 call which favours an small team.

    It will make it easier for them to spot the black and white issues which are often missed in real time.

    The ones where a studio full of pundits cannot agree if it's a red/pen will remain ambiguous and therefore open to benefit the big clubs.
     
    W4BS likes this.
  11. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I love this interview. So much passion and he sums it up pretty well. I actually said the same thing during the game pointing out the animated delight Moss was showing every time he awarded Liverpool a freekick. I'm glad someone else spotted it too.

     
  12. W4BS

    W4BS First Year Pro

    There will always be big club bias. It is how its always been, and how unfortunately it always be. It might not always be quite as obvious as the running joke that is Jon Moss vs Watford FC, but it will be there. You can bet your life that when weighing up the penalty decision yesterday both Moss and the linesmen thought about the consequences of awarding a penalty against Liverpool, the media attention, and the constant criticism in the press. It simply is not the same if the decision goes against us. It is forgotten in a heartbeat and nobody outside of south west Hertfordshire really care.
     
  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I would take it one step further. Had he awarded Liverpool an incorrect penalty which contributed them losing their first game of the season, would have been major headlines and massive bad press for Moss. This is why the decision is not given because he feared over getting it wrong. Had it been the other way around, the risk is not so great, so it's far easier to give it as there is no consequence, only a little bit of huffing and puffing from Watford fans.

    This is why the big sides get the favourable decisions the majority of the time. If VAR is used correctly next season, it will level the playing field and you will see a lot more "shock" results because of it.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  14. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Criticising the linesman for making the correct offside decision?
     
  15. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    He got it right, but they said he guessed it. I think that's probably correct. Have a look at the goal from the side angle. He flags so late, well after Deulofeu controls the ball. It's not until he shoots does the flag go up. This tells me he wasn't sure about his decision. When you are certain then the flag goes up straight away once the attacking player touches the ball. This wasn't the case on this occasion.
     
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Yes. But if he had to take an extra second, to make sure he more than likely made the right call, what’s the issue? Honestly, some people just want criticise officials for the sake of it. Moss made a big, incorrect call yesterday and criticism of that is understandable. Aside from that, the officials did nothing wrong.
     
  17. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I don't buy that. If you see a player offside, then you flag as soon as he touches or moves towards the ball. To delay it tells me he's unsure of the decision. It was a very late flag, almost too late. Deulofeu is allowed to control the ball run forward and shoot before the flag goes up. The delay is too long for it to be considered anything more than just a guess. Luckily for him, he got it right, but I think it's a fair thing to deduce is that he just guessed in Liverpool's favour.

    Who cares if they award throw ins or corners correctly. It's the big key decisions that matter. Guessing is not good enough. If he was unsure he should have kept his flag down, not just side with the bigger team.

    Plus it would be nice if we got a massive howler in our favour against a top side for once......although that will never happen.
     
  18. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    And I don’t buy that and believe it’s just another way of criticising officials once again. So I guess we are even.
     
  19. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    You're the only one sticking up for Moss and his team, that tells me something.
     
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    All it should tell you is that I’m bored of you peddling this agenda over officials every week. It’s not personal but you clearly don’t like opinions that differ to your own. I’ve said Moss made a mistake. A big one. But it was hardly a game littered with officiating errors. And I really don’t see the point in criticising the linesman for making the correct decision. How he arrived at that correct decision is irrelevant.
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  21. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    You are so last year. Change the record. These days everyone is saying it.
     
  22. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I don’t even know what that means.

    But you’ve accused me of ‘defending’ Moss and his fellow officials. What I’m doing is merely not choosing to highlight mistakes that weren’t even there.

    I may be ‘so last year’. But you blaming the ref is so last week. And the week before...and the week before. And so on.
     
  23. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Maybe you're having a bad day or are just in a bad mood, but you've also blamed Moss for missing the penalty. So you are also having a go at him, and you're his biggest fan!!

    If officials make bad decisions, then it has to be talked about. You cannot just ignore it, as it has such a big impact on the out come of a match. The game before this one was Southampton, and there were three major mistakes made. No one makes issues about the officials without good cause.

    The fact it's spoken about so often, by a lot of people, not just me, is because it happens often. We've had major bad decisions against Fulham, Bournemouth, Southampton, Liverpool and Spurs in the cup. These are games where we've been hard done by, and the vast majority of people on this forum have seen it this way also.

    When you're on the other side of the argument, all you can realistically come up with is the Capoue challenge against Palace and the Southampton goal (which probably wouldn't have happened had the been given a penalty and red card in the first place).
     
  24. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Abandon thread!
     
  25. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I'm still trying to work out who played Firminio onside for their 3rd....I may have missed someone, but not sure who.
     
  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Unfortunately it was Kiko. He was lying down watching the game, so played everyone on.
     
  27. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    With the early offside goal, the flag should go up when he touched it first. It didn't, instead the flag was raised after the second touch which was his shot into the net which was 3 paces on. It is that which is wrong.

    Also by giving all the 50/50 and small fouls, it gives the momentum to the opposition.

    His lack of fitness meant he missed the penalty decision but the linesman should have seen it.

    With the second goal I thought Mariappa was initialy fouled but then he pulled his shirt for what seemed forever until the foul was given.

    Someone should keep a record of decisions for and against over a season. So far I think it is 1-3 against us for big VAR like decisions.
     
    hornetboy1 likes this.
  28. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    Linesman was pointing to Kiko on the ground.

    Thing is that I thought he was offside from the initial movement and so should have been flagged even though he was onside when Foster pushed the ball out to him.
     
  29. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    From the top of my head, had VAR been in place this season, we'd have had a penalty at Southampton and maybe a second yellow, Fulham would have had a man sent off in the 34th minute, and a penalty against Liverpool. It's hard to say regarding the Bournemouth penalty and second yellow. It was probably a penalty and even though it's extremely rare for a second yellow to have been given I don't think Moss would have overturned it (being the person he is). The other injustice was in the Carabao Cup, which would not have had VAR. The red card was actually overturned afterwards.

    On the other side of things, Capoue would have been sent off against Palace in the 3rd minute. Southampton would probably not have scored the goal had VAR been in place. So I agree with you 3-1 against us in the league.

    This, in all probability, has cost us 2 points at Fulham, 2 points at Southampton, and maybe even a famous win over Liverpool. We would have almost certainly lost the Palace game though, so that's -3. In total we could have been 4 points better off overall.
     
  30. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    All this pantie wetting over the pen. Had it been awarded 1 of 2 things would have happened:

    1. Deeney would have missed it and we'd have lost 3-0.
    2. Deeney would have scored it and we'd have lost 3-1.

    Even when down to ten men they scored against us with ease. Not that I was there to see it, I was out the ground by then.

    The rot has well and truly set in. To quote Alan hansen 'you don't win anything with gurning simpletons'
     
    RookeryDad, Jack5, Keighley and 3 others like this.
  31. No - both Cathcart and Kiko were in front of him keeping him onside when Robertson's cross reached Mane.
     
  32. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    Deloufeu was onside for the long ball, but offside for the flick on. The linesman may have been asking Moss if there was a touch before flagging. It's better he does that then disallows a fair goal.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
     
  33. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Maybe he took out his iPhone and watched the goal on Sky before flagging. He certainly had the time to do so.
     
  34. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Ben Foster made one really good save yesterday, which was the one down low from the header. The one at the end doesn't qualify for me A) it was more or less smacked straight at him and B) he didn't deflect it safe and we ended up conceding. The other saves he made were all at a height to suit and whilst not 'routine' should reasonably be within the capabilities of a prem keeper. He also made at least three very decent interventions/interceptions - coming out for the ball very confidently.

    However, the first goal was what did for us to a large extent and it went straight through him. I don't know what went wrong there.

    As for the second goal, the free kick was 35 yards out. I appreciate that where it went was not 'his' side of the goal, but that far out it's not going to be too much surprise that a half-decent player has room enough to get it up and over the wall. You'd have to half be expecting to cover the whole goal. You have the advantage that from that far out, you've got plenty of time to see the ball coming and react accordingly. Time even for a step towards the ball.

    I honestly think that if old Terrance Trent-Whatsisname were to try from the same spot against me in goal from that distance, that I'd be able to make more of a move towards the bloody ball than Foster managed. He was bouncing up and down on the spot just before the kick. Even if he'd carried on bouncing up and down in the middle of the goal while it whistled into the corner, it still would have been an improvement on what he actually did. Stood there stock still, musical bloody statues and failing to even twitch or blink.

    I've been a supporter of Mapps and believed that he was unfairly maligned by several on here. However he had a very poor game yesterday in a number of respects. Giving away an unnecessary and stupidly obvious foul leading to what betting website commentary/diagrams would call 'A Dangerous Free Kick!' would top the list. Also failed miserably for the first along with Femenia. It is not enough to point at him and flop your fringe Kiko - you're the full back - get after him!

    Bobby P was more or less absent, although he seemed to get mainly ignored by the midfield who only had eyes for Deeney and Geri. He did pop up one or twice with a shot - one big chance that he fired in at just a nice height and reach for Moyet to save. Another sent well wide. We love the curlers Bobby, but it doesn't have to be every single shot you have. And it would appear that even though you twist your trunk until you look like a horse with a broken leg and smack it with the outside of your foot like a croquet mallet, it won't always curl as much as you'd like. Once or twice, take it one another touch and flippin' leather it into the bottom corner.

    I honestly like Geri D's football very much. However, I'm sure he'd be the first to acknowledge that his game can be frustrating at times. Perhaps he'd also understand how when we lose, his stupid haircut and insolent air inevitably make his little puffed-out pink face one of the most slappable in the Premier League.

    Isaac Success did reasonably well I suppose in some ways. He has strength and the ability to hold the ball up. He has speed and makes decent runs. Unfortunately he seems to be entirely lacking in the ability to pass the football, without either woefully under or over hitting it or even tapping it straight to the opposition.

    Capoue also did little. However you have to applaud the valiant attempt to level up the numbers and get another three weeks 'en vacances' towards the end. If he'd have connected with that whole-body, sliding, lunging, Bruce Lee style tackle, the first six rows of the lower GT would have been picking shattered fragments of Scouse flesh out of their hair for days afterwards.
     
  35. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    I don't like losing to Liverpool.

    There's someone who lives around here somewhere who's got a crappy red 4x4 with the number plate L11VPO and stickers of that vulture thing they have as their badge stuck in the windows.

    I bet they're all happy and that.

    Well double bollokcs to 'em.
     

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