Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by hornetboy1, Aug 10, 2019.
The World Cup bigger than the Premier League? Ur avin a larf m8
That was a dive.
That's your opinion. But many others saw it as a clear foul. I agree the fall looked exaggerated, but it was still a foul in the penalty area. Players at bigger clubs, or Crystal Palace/Bournemouth tend to get these decisions.
We rarely get a penalty, even when the foul is clear cut. We certainly never get marginal ones, whereas other clubs do.
We got only one penalty last season, and have only had one this season also, even though we should have had three.
Biggest league in the world? Championship is bigger. If you mean best league in the world then that is Sky hype drummed into people for Sky's benefit. It is only when you get in it you realise the standard is nowhere near as high as is made out, City and Liverpool aside, and it is all hyped up. And, to get back on topic, that is part of the reason the ref's are so in the spotlight right now. All the hype, all the arrogance of Riley that we will 'do VAR differently for the best league in the world' and they have farked it right up. It has been used well in the world cup, a way of using it that worked and they've decided they can do it better. If it worked well in a world cup why would you not follow that format and then alter it if needs be?
The premier league is the laughing stock of the world when it comes to refereeing standards right now. It amazed me that the ref who didn't give the GD penalty on Saturday is the same one who gave Sane a penalty at Anfield the week before for the slightest touch.
Best league in the world? Not even the best league in England. roll on relegation.
And the opinion of many others, though not everyone. So not a clear cut one to go on your list. Saturday was clear cut and I've not seen one person disagree it was a penalty, but a mix of opinions on the handball.
We've been done over by officials this season but lets not over egg the 'woe me' story.
I'm sure you'll find people who will back the handball goals and the penalty at Spurs as well. It's just your opinion, and if you'd like to make a list of what you think, then that's fine as well.
Adding the Everton non-penalty to the list is hardly over egging it. I thought it was a clear penalty and I've got to post what I believe in. I cannot post what other people think is or is not valid.
I think I'm fair and balanced in my opinion though, but I know the usual will deny that.
In fairness it probably is the best in the world currently but the standard of refereeing certainly isn't
Of course we have been hard done by.
But........no referee, however strong the evidence, should award a penalty for a foul on a player wearing gloves in October. Some players only have themselves to blame.
Quite incredible when you stack it up like that. The softest of pens for Liverpool to win the game. Same bloke doesn't see a stonewall slide on Delofeu. Incompetence abounds, even when they have VAR to fall back on. Shameful.
Don't you think the howling reaction to the Liverpool one at least contributes to what happened to us?
It’s beyond contempt to be honest. Ref gets it wrong both times (in my view) and VAR just does nothing. It’s completely pointless.
Klopp said something interesting, he was told that refs wont give free kicks as quickly because if a goal is scored the VAR ref can overrule. But also told there's a high bar of clear and obvious in overuling on field refs. Which means that if the foul on Origi was considered probably a foul but not clearly and obviously a foul by both the ref and VAR, both willingly get it wrong.
Indeed they will. Utterly hilarious. You are completly devoid of the concept of 'balance' and consistently present a grossly biased opinion (which is OKish if presented as such I guess) as fact (which it isn't).
I'm increasingly wondering, whether, given the £ hundreds of millions at stake here, there might be a legal case to be brought against VAR. With WFC in the lead.
- VAR is backing the ref's original decision on every occasion with regard to penalties. Even in the face of 100% of pundits and commentators agreeing that we should have been given one on Saturday but weren't
- no ref has yet made use of the pitchside monitor freely available for him to come to a more considered judgement
- the pitchside monitor has been freely used to get decisions right both in the World Cup and on the continent. There is an over-riding perception that it did get more right than we are currently getting right here. So, reasonably, it might be expected that that would be the precedent to have followed
- there is an over-riding perception that the system is currently being operated in a way to protect the integrity of the 'refs' cabal' even though it is doing exactly the opposite. That is not its purpose
- it is 'beyond reasonable doubt' that a mere mortal, viewing in real time, often with an obscured view, won't get 100% of penalty decisions right especially when compared to a system of relatively relaxed playback, from a multitude of angles, far removed from the intensity of the stadium
- the purpose of VAR is not to protect refs' reputations. It is to protect and enhance the integrity of the game by getting more critical decisions right and, by extension, the integrity of all PL clubs and their reasonable expectation to be treated fairly
- refs aren't the sole arbiters of what's fair on a football pitch. Plenty of others have a locus in that too.
I'd suggest that there's now enough evidence to go to court. If we were to take the lead on that as 'most sinned against' then I'd suggest that sooner rather than later would be best. Retrospective 'after relegation' doesn't really work. Ask the Blades.
'Beyond reasonable doubt' is very important here. I'd suggest that was how Boris' Prorogation was found to be illegal. The reason he gave for it was, 'beyond reasonable doubt' not the real reason. Same with VAR. The refs' defence that 'look, we're just really good at our job' is, 'beyond reasonable doubt', utter b.llocks.
Hey-ho though, I'm just a layman. I'd appreciate an input from UEA and Keighley and any other 'legal eagles' hanging about on here.
Although I don't think this well ever get to the courts, I do agree with almost all of your logical argument. The only think I think is wrong is that under VAR procedure it's not the on pitch ref who decides to go to the monitor. He should be advised to do by the VAR when he thinks there has been a clear error.
Nordin Amrabat would strongly disagree with you. Plus there were plenty of mistakes using VAR during the WC! So where you got zero mistakes is amazing.
He referred his post to VAR and it gave itself a clear bill of health.
It'll be interesting to see who the first ref is to break ranks and overrule a colleague with a penalty shout and who is the first to use the pitchside monitor.
I've no doubt the celebrity ref, Mr chocolate Mike Dean, will be a favourite. Could even be this weekend at our game
VAR sent off a Southampton player - quite rightly too.
They are now 3-0 down!
Have to laugh that all of a sudden the VAR official starts making decisions after they got vilified last weekend, then again it was Mike Dean and he loves a Red Card
Maybe this is a sign that, following the wall-to-wall criticism, VAR (maybe just maybe) is about to be used properly.
I've got no doubt it'll start being used properly in a decision that goes against us and costs us points, further extending our rotten run of luck.
It's just the way things are going at the moment.
Well it wasn't for a penalty...that will be the key turning point.
This is actually an interesting concept.
Imagine if we went down by a single point at the end of the season.
We could easily make an argument that VAR cost us 2 points against Spurs through endorsing clearly incorrect decisions that were ridiculed by every media source you can name. That could be argued as gross negligence, perhaps.
The Tevez legal saga (even thought it was clearly never going to be successful) shows that you can go a fair distance with legal claims in football. Even that rather spurious claim by Sheffield United saw a sizable settlement.
I’m not sure it was that spurious. I’d actually say our complaint against Everton was probably even more dubious. Ultimately, West Ham coughed up and settled when they’d lost an arbitration ruling - so I think it’s wrong to say the claim was ‘clearly never going to be successful’.
You are hb1 and I claim my £20.
That was poor phrasing on my part; didn't proof read first.
What I meant was that when the original kerfuffle erupted, it was largely ridiculed. No one thought it was going anywhere.
I'm Sting, actually. And Aberdeen.
Just think of the reaction if a penalty was given for this here !!
Another two important decisions got wrong by VAR yesterday - City's second goal and Brighton's farcical penalty. One point I have heard brought up a number of times by commentators is the fact that the on-field ref does not seem to be looking at his pitch-side monitor during the decisions or be involved in the discussion leading to the final decision? For example, I believe De Silva admitted to the ref the ball had touched him (which should have ruled the goal offside), but this info wasn't relayed to the VAR ref. This seems ludicrous. Can anyone on here more knowledgeable on the intricacies of VAR explain why this is the case?
No way was the Brighton penalty a penalty. They’ve obviously been told to start overruling penalties now. Can’t believe such a good tool is being so badly mismanaged
The way the Brighton penalty went was the way I expected VAR to work at the start of the season and largely the way it is used elsewhere, i.e. ’there was contact so it’s a foul’. This totally ignores the possibility that the defender accidentally stood on his heel, which I think most people would judge as what happened. I think it’s entirely possible that this decision was a direct reaction to the universal disbelief over the foul on Deulofeu not being awarded last week, but in truth both decisions were wrong and just increases my antipathy towards VAR.
VAR is a great tool, but what do they say about bad workmen, i.e the VAR operators, they always blame their tools
If VAR is used correctly it will definitely improve the game we love, but if the idiots who are operating it at the moment are allowed to continue to misuse it, it will be just a waste of time
Another one in the Newcastle Wolves match; Lascelles pulled Doherty down by grabbing his shirt...no way could on field ref really see it, but muppet Scott on VAR decided (in the words of the Sky pundits) “he obviously was not pulling his shirt enough for it to be a pen”. They were pretty scathing of the mis-application of VAR in the Premier.
Why did they not mention that Doherty was also pulling the defenders shirt? Both pulling shirts, therefore nothing to give.