VAR decisions

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by hornetboy1, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I think it's important to keep a note of the VAR decisions this season, just to keep track of it.

    So the big contentious one from today (v Brighton home) was a no penalty award after this incident was reviewed.
    https://twitter.com/louorns/status/1160234300895309825

    The overall view appears to be it should have been a penalty.

    The score being 0-1, so it would have had a direct impact on how the game panned out.

    VAR official: Andy Madley.
     
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  2. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I did fear the first time VAR would be used it might go against us !

    Sounds like it was a bit contentious at West Hamv Man City ..
     
  3. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Great thread. Will be interesting to see how the decisions pan out over the season.
     
  4. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    Can we keep ALL VAR chat in this thread so I can avoid it most of the time as already fed up hearing about it. All journey home it was all they spoke about on the radio. Fans crying left right and centre about it. I wouldn’t have even noticed they were using it today at our game, caused no issues and no noticeable delays.

    I do like the idea of the thread though, be interesting to see if the ‘debatable’ ones go against us over a season. However you’d have to compare this handball decision against all the other ones that are practically identical from other teams to see if we are hard done by.
     
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  5. Hopefully the incident will be shown on Sky Match Choice tonight, if it is I will add my tuppence worth to this thread tomorrow
     
  6. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Can't wait.
     
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  7. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Can anyone explain how under the new interpretation of the handball rule it wasn't given?

    I thought if your arm was up and was making your body shape bigger, it was a penalty regardless of intent. That ball hit Murray's elbow when he'd jumped in the air and stopped the free kick going past the end of the wall. I thought this was *exactly* the situation the new interpretation was supposed to catch.
     
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  8. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    It was a penalty. No one can argue it wasn’t. Had they used VAR it would have been given.

    .......oh wait!!!

    VAR is not the problem, it’s the useless imbecile that’s operating it which is the issue.

    I knew we’d have issues with Andy Madley. You need quality officials and unfortunately they do not exist in England. The fixture was an unfashionable one, so the FA appoint their worst officials for the game. A Pawson/Madley combo. Wow.

    When we handball in the exact same way in the future, we’ll get done by it. We all know it. A penalty will be awarded and everyone will say “well it hit his arm, it has to be given”. Apart from when it’s us of course.

    Only one penalty awarded to us for the entire season last year. Is there a bias against us? but at least with VAR it can be measured.

    One game gone, we’re already one decision down on VAR.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  9. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Here's the official line from the bloke implementing the thing:-

    The incident: Roberto Pereyra smashes a second-half Watford free-kick into the wall. He runs straight up to referee Craig Pawson shouting for a handball but the referee is not having it. VAR agrees in double-quick time.

    Foy's verdict: "This is an interesting one because you have to consider the new laws on handball. What we are looking for is whether the player made themselves unnaturally bigger. In this case, Glenn Murray hadn't so it didn't fit the criteria to change the decision."
     
  10. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    From what I saw VAR got everything correct. No idea what all the moaning was about in the Spam Citeh game.
     
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  11. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Am I being thick here? Isn't this exactly what Glenn Murray did? He jumped up, turned to the side and stuck his elbow out which blocked the ball. Isn't that the very definition of what Foy has just described?
     
  12. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    You might almost begin to suspect they’re making it up as they go along.

    The PL have already said they’re going to carry on interpreting handball as they have in recent seasons, regardless of the law change. They said they were happy with how it was. That naturally got slammed by FIFA’s refereeing chiefs, who said you can’t have individual countries or competitions choosing what rules they like and don’t like. So I suspect Chris Foy’s comment here is a nod to both camps. It acknowledges the change in the law but basically endorses the decision which ignores it.
     
  13. Can we have a graph to track the incidents?
     
  14. So they ignored dot point 1 of their own rules?
    Because Murray's arm certainly moved into the path of the ball - and the ball certainly hit his arm, just below the elbow, causing it to be deflected away.
    It was the 'double-quick time' that annoyed me - I'm wondering if the VAR even watched a replay of the incident.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    The only problem was we had Andy Madley on VAR yesterday. He's just useless. He probably couldn't even get the TV working and just pretended to review.

    There are TWO rules which meant that should have been a penalty.

    1. deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball.
    2. the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger.

    Two of the FA rules could and should have applied to the incident. It was a massive call to get wrong at such a crucial moment in the game. Had the penalty been given, we'd have probably equalised and the game would have been totally different. We were actually on the ascendancy when it occurred.

    We have VAR, but nothing is different. But it's now clear. There is no hiding or excuses for officials now. I get an official can miss something in real time, but there is no excuse for not getting it right when reviewing on TV. It's obsoletely clear what Murray did. There's no debate, yet Madley saw it differently. It just goes to show, what I've suspected for a long time, these officials are just not competent, certainly the ones we usually get.

    Btw, has anyone seen the replay of the third goal? I've not seen the replay of that to see if it was offside or not. They probably got that right as nothing has been said, but I'd like to know if anyone has seen a freeze frame from a side on angle just to prove it was a correct VAR decision.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  16. simpleMASH

    simpleMASH Reservist

    If Murray didn’t have any arms, that ball would not have hit him. His arms weren’t in front of his torso, they weren’t tucked in, they weren’t behind his back. Being in a wall from a freekick means he’s a full 10 yards away. Time to react to the flight of the ball.

    No excuses on this one - definite penalty.

    E4780B99-1B15-4B10-A029-0DFCECDD50D0.jpeg

    3FB3767F-32A3-4EE3-ADE2-6854F9C738E4.jpeg
     
  17. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    The commentators yesterday looked at the free-kick in slow-mo and showed that it was ball-to-arm BUT "...the arm wasn't being held in an unnatural shape..." which I think would suggest they had a copy of the ruling in front of them?

    Which appears to what is shown here:
    http://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/var-decisions.56156/#post-2769713
     
  18. Johnnyc72

    Johnnyc72 Academy Graduate

    Even Alan Pardew on Goals on Sunday said it was a definite penalty.
     
  19. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    That's the moot point. Chris Foy said he thought it was a correct interpretation with the arm not being in an unnatural position. I think it's a question of "experts" fitting their argument to side with the referees decision. Had a VAR review given a penalty he would have sided with that too, stating the Murray's arm went towards the ball, he turned but left his elbow away from his body making himself a bigger target. I guarantee he would have something along those lines, because this is what has been explained in the past. They all agreed with the decision for Man Utd against PSG last season, and they backed the VAR decision on that occasion.

    Basically it's all bollox and they make it up as they go along.
     
  20. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Personally I think the Murray handball was debatable, given the way the rule is written at the moment, but I am actually happy with that. I think the level to which VAR takes offside rulings down to the toenail is ludicrous. If an offside is that close it shouldn’t be given and I think the same about handball.
     
  21. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Referees come out with rubbish, like it's natural to move your arms when you jump...…...oh yeah....is it? It's only natural when you want to stop the ball from going past you.

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Completely agree with this. Nothing natural at all about Murray's position.
     
  23. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Did you really need to deface the picture with a pair of bollox?
     
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  24. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Was clearly the wrong decision. Commentators on my stream didn't seem to understand how the match officials could possibly say Murray's arms were in a natural position.

    I have sympathy with the notion that the arm has to go somewhere, but most players manage to keep them neatly out of the way either in front of their "package" or behind their backs. Murray did neither.

    Given that their second came right after the VAR review and that the vast majority of penalties are scored, it's more than fair to point out that this decision changed the game significantly.

    I will say, however, that I was disappointed that Pereyra spent time chasing the ref down while the ball was still very much in play near their goal. If he'd have kept his head and played on, we might have made something of it.
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  25. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    I thought the rule with VAR was that it would only intervene and overrule if it is a "clear and obvious mistake" or a "serious missed incident". Not sure the potential handball penalty in our game qualifies.
     
  26. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Pleased that Wolves goal disallowed
     
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  27. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    It may well be better viewing than the Sawyer Graph this time.
     
  28. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    I suspect Bob, who the perfect view, simply couldn’t believe it wasn’t given.
     
  29. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    There’s been a preference for English players in recent transfer markets.

    Maybe the next fad will be amputees.
     
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  30. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Correct. So how can a marginal offside ever constitute a "clear and obvious mistake" or a "serious missed incident"? The pursuit of exactitude is a nonsense.
     
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  31. Understandable :D
     
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  32. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    It doesn't. But there's a need, especially with the usual suspect, to want to believe there's some sort of conspiracy/bias against Watford.

    It used to be exclusively when we played the 'big' clubs until it wasn't (like yesterday). Then it expanded to just the little clubs as the officials don't mind getting it wrong. Now it's every game and every decision, even with VAR.

    It's a great distraction from how ******* terrible we are though. Always has been.
     
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  33. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Wolves manager and captain complaining that it was unfair and accidental..

    Well maybe but rules say handball is handball even if it's not deliberate in that situation .
     
  34. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Today brought home the stark reality that our game has now turned American.
     
  35. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    We’re getting cheerleaders?

    But you’re right. Legalistic ‘proof’ quashing spontaneity. Measurement culture. The event here, now ‘and live’ trumping any real historical perspective.

    Throw in No Relegation & we’re there.

    Actually, that seems an excellent idea.
     
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