Ched Evans

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Rostrons Red Card, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well he'll sign for somebody so the debate about should he be allowed back at Sheffield United is almost worthless.

    If they don't get him another team will.
     
  2. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    60k people are reported to have signed the petition saying Sheff Utd should not sign him again, however it is reported that at least 40k of those signatures have come from Sheff Wed fans.
     
  3. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Complete fabrication.

    I'd be surprised if more than 5000 people in Sheffield were able to read and write to a standard that allowed them to sign a petition.
     
  4. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    That's how they worked out the petition had been hijacked - "X" signed 40,000 times.
     
  5. LLST

    LLST Squad Player

    Bit of a tough one for me, ordinarily I'd say he's served his time he should get a second chance but the nature of the crime is unforgiveable
     
  6. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Personally think he was done up like a kipper, by a girl who got drunk and was then ashamed of herself the next day. Should he play football again? I don't know, but he's served his time. We took Deeney back after all.
     
  7. lm_wfc

    lm_wfc Squad Player

    What was the nature of the crime?
    Being disgusting and joining in a threesome with his mate and a girl in a travel lodge?
     
  8. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Rape.
     
  9. Timbers

    Timbers Apeman

    As UEA says, he is a convicted rapist. The court of law found him guilty, I think there may have been more into this than what you read on his website or what his family spout to the media.

    I would never support a team with Lee Hughes or Luke McCormack playing for them, it would be the same with Evans. Opposition supporters will quite rightly give him hell.
     
  10. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    What Deeney did was bang out of order but rape is whole lot more serious. Whether you believe he was guilty or not is irrelevant as he was found guilty by a jury that heard all the evidence not just little parts that appear in the paper. I would not be happy if a convicted rapist played for us but neither would I be happy to have Luke McCormack.
    Ched Evans was lucky enough to have the abilities to play football at a very decent level and earn a very good living and while he is clearly going to have to do something for a living I don't think he should get the chance to do something where he is looked up to by kids.
     
  11. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I'm inclined to agree instinctively, but then, we're armchair jurors here and the UK courts have convicted him of a heinous crime.

    Either our legal system is bunk, or he is guilty of rape, in which case, I would not want him in my club, no matter how good he could be.
     
  12. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    It all comes down really to whether he is guilty or not. If he is guilty then of course I would not want him to play football for my club, however if not guilty why should he be banned?

    Unfortunately nowadays with some of these rape cases you do have to wonder if some of these cases are actually just the result of a woman feeling ashamed the next day. Im not by any means excusing all rapists, some of them certainly are sick twisted ****s who should be castrated but I'm sure there are some guys who have been unfairly locked away.
     
  13. simms

    simms vBookie

    That's why the conviction rate is so low, often it's just based on one persons word against another. To be convicted surely you have to have done it beyond any reasonable doubt, so I'd be surprised to see any significant numbers of innocent people being jailed for it. The low conviction rate is nothing but a scandal but theres not really much that can be done to solve it that I know of.
     
  14. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    The conviction rate for rape is currently at an all-time high (63%), historically speaking.
     
  15. simms

    simms vBookie

    Because it was ridiculously low before. Gradually improving but still not good enough.
     
  16. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    But how many people are wrongly convicted? Hell how many people are wrongly accused? I agree that its not good enough for people to get away with rape, its also not good enough that some men are getting convicted for a crime they did not commit.
     
  17. simms

    simms vBookie

    I'm not sure of the figures. It sounds like something orny arry would know about.
     
  18. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/13/man-wrongly-convicted-sexual-assault-freed-17-years

    Just one example.

    As with all crimes, the unfortunate reality is that innocent people do end up convicted so it's dangerous to presume that a rape conviction means it must be beyond contention.

    I absolutely despise rapists (my sister was raped so I've seen what it does to victims firsthand) and I think they should be locked away for a long time, but the Evans case smells very off to me for a number of reasons. The most confusing aspect of the verdict is that McDonald was found not guilty while Evans was convicted.
     
  19. NortholtHorn

    NortholtHorn Reservist

    They've used this Evans case as an oppurtunity to strike fear into the heart of men taking advantage of drunk women.

    Problem is he's not high-profile enough anyways.

    And if she's too pissed to make a proper judgement call on wether or not to have sex with someone then that's her own ****ing fault.

    I highly doubt a footballer earning thousands a week would feel the need to pry on hideously drunk women when he could just wave a wad of cash around and have a fair number of women shaking at the knees.
     
  20. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Whether he was guilty or not has been decided by a court of law and a jury and none of us are in a position to really question that.
    He's served his time and is entitled to rehabilitation. In my opinion he deserves a second chance and I'd rather he earned pot loads and paid tax on it than sat at home leeching off of my hard earned.
    If football is the best way for him to do that then that is what he should do. If he keeps his head down he follow the excellent example set by a certain Mr. Deeney. As far as I know he's not a serial offender like Marlon King who needs the book thrown at him.
     
  21. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    This is an odd stance to take. Striving for a high conviction rate is only desirable if your starting point is that all women who claim to have been raped are always telling the truth. Every case should be judged on it's own merits.
     
  22. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yeah - the troubling this about this case is the fact the verdict seems illogical. If she is too drunk to consent to Evans, how is she sober enough to consent to McDonald? I guess the fact that she went back to the hotel with McDonald gives him the benefit of the doubt, but it still feels like it should be either both guilty or both innocent to me, from a logical viewpoint.
     
  23. simms

    simms vBookie

    I thought it went without saying, a high conviction rate of the guilty. Of course each case should be judged on its merits, that's what I meant. But theres a problem nonetheless.
     
  24. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Strictly speaking it's a 100% conviction rate of guilty people bar a few percent let off on technicalities etc. If they're not convicted, they're not guilty. We have to uphold the innocent until proved guilty idea. We cant start convicting people without evidence because they were likely to have done something.

    Rape is obviously one of the most serious crimes, even the word is very emotive. As a serious question for anyone in the know are there catagories of rape? Would taking advantage of someone incapable of saying no be considered as serious as violently pinning someone down and assaulting them? If not then I wonder if this needs to be discussed.

    Also one thing that really irks me with serious crimes is the ability for the accuser to remain annoymous however the accused details can be plastered all over the news. In my book both parties should remain anonymous until at least charges are made.
     
  25. rochdale away

    rochdale away Reservist

    I always agreed with the don't name until charged, until hearing an interview where the case for naming early was very eloquently put forward(by a bloke as well). The gist of it was to allow the chance for other past victims to come forward. You only have to look at the recent high profile cases to see the potential benefit.
    I agree on the different levels of rape, this happens with most criminal offences and might increase prosecution rates. It's all very emotive and contentious whichever way you look at it, including Evans. On the one hand he served his punishment, his job is a pro footie player, let him earn a living. On the other hand, I wouldn't want him at Watford.
     
  26. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    There are no specific categories of rape, no. If you go to Page 10-12 of this PDF though you can see how judges take into account different aggravating and mitigating factors before deciding on a sentence.
     
  27. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    I wonder, was Deeney's crime or Ched Evan's crime worse?

    Deeney's assult consisted of kicking a defenceless chap in the head while lying on the floor - could've easily caused more damage than stiches and broken jaw, could've caused brain damage or even death.

    We gave Deeney a 2nd chance - why shouldn't Ched Evan's be given a second chance?
     
  28. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Would you rather be kicked in the head or raped? I would take head kick.
     
  29. fan

    fan slow toaster

    The guy on the floor was drunk too. Maybe he was willing participant and just had that remorse you get the next day and decided to go to the police.
     
  30. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Precisely.

    The prosecution's case essentially boiled down to the fact that she was too drunk to consent (note that this was despite the fact the girl herself specifically stated that she hadn't drunk much that night by her usual standards and would usually drink much more).

    If she was too drunk to consent to Evans then I can't see how she was sober enough to consent to McDonald. The fact she went back to the hotel with McDonald doesn't magically make her more sober or more able to consent.

    Frankly, it almost feels like the Jury couldn't agree on what happened so came to some kind of agreement to convict one and let the other off.
     
  31. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    If Troy's brothers tweets are to be believed it was a different lad that got a broken jaw in the fracas and though they tried to infer it, no-where in the press has it stated that it was Troy that broke someones jaw. The judge even said it wasn't possible to associate particular injuries to particular assailants which sounds a complete cop-out to me, he obviously wanted to make an example of Deeney and mere details weren't going to stop him.
     
  32. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Joint enterprise covers it. If you all set out to get into a fight then you're all responsible for what happens next. It's highly unlikely that someone impartial is going to be standing next to the fight keeping a blow by blow account of who did what to whom. Deeney got a higher sentence because CCTV showed him and one other had a much greater role in the violence.
     
  33. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    Agreed but he also had a higher profile, how much did that affect his sentence? ... It just annoys me that people assume he broke the lad's jaw purely on account of the sensationalist reporting at the time.

    You're wrong on one thing though, they were charged because they were recognisable in the footage, not that they had a greater role. More assumptions the press did little to allay.
     
  34. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/ex-aston-villa-footballer-troy-deeney-187494

    "Passing sentence, Judge David Tomlinson said CCTV footage of the incident near the Bliss Nightclub, showed that Troy Deeney and his friend Oliver Brennan played a more serious role in the disorder than the other defendants."

    Similar is reported elsewhere.
     
  35. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    I missed that, though I think there was something in the case notes saying the police could not recognise some of the others. However I also think Tomlinson should have insisted on more detail before handing out such tough sentences.
     

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