Ched Evans

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Rostrons Red Card, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    s4(4) carries up to life in prison.
     
  2. Orny Arry

    Orny Arry Guest

    Yes, the crucial bit being.... (4). This involves penetration of the mans *****. Not much different to rape. In favour of the female gender.... Again. Otherwise it's ten years.
     
  3. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I've just realised that I've been raped by fat and ugly birds time and time again.
     
  4. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Apologies to everyone else but what are you on Arry? Did you read s4(4)(c)? It explicitly (pun intended) covers the situation you say you were in. And carries life imprisonment.
     
  5. Orny Arry

    Orny Arry Guest

    I tell you what, you break down the two main aspects of s.4, who it's applicable to, when it's been used, by whom, and we can go from there...
     
  6. Orny Arry

    Orny Arry Guest

    Time AND time again?

    No way have you been laid twice. ;)
     
  7. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Nope. I basically did that by PM t'other week. I even gave you a link to demonstrate that it covered your woman offending against man scenario. I have no intention of doing it again as it's really quite dull when you think about it.
     
  8. Orny Arry

    Orny Arry Guest

    There's two aspects to s.4. You referred to the scenario that carries life. You didn't refer to the scenario that carries the ten years and to whom this would be applicable to. But hey, it doesn't matter. Not in the grand scheme of things. There's a piece of legislation under s.1 that should be applicable to both genders, and it isn't. There's no defending this.
     
  9. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    It also suggests she could easily have given her consent but just can't remember it and, with the burden of proof resting with the prosecution, he should have been acquitted due to that doubt. It's putting a huge onus on the bloke to judge exactly what state of sobriety she's in, and whether she's compos mentis enough for her consent to be valid, particularly when he's probably had quite a few beers himself.

    I'm not suggesting that's necessarily what happened. I'm simply suggesting that it's a perfectly plausible scenario so the conviction is unsafe.

    Have you ever been so pissed that you've woken up the next morning and not remembered what you did? I know I have!.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  10. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    No, it doesn't condone him taking advantage of her. Simply that, seeing as she can't remember what happened, there's no proof that he did.

    So are you saying that he shouldn't get a job at all then? That he should remain a burden on the state for evermore? No rehabilitation? If he was back scoring goals for Sheffield Utd. you could say to a child - look, the society we live in says that if you do something bad then you have to pay, you may to go to prison, but when you've done that you can get your old life back. Society isn't vindictive and won't judge you and compromise you for evermore. Troy? Of course there are some jobs that should be barred to you after certain convictions. A convicted paedophile shouldn't get a job at a kindergarten. But what's Ched Evans gonna do - commit rape on the football pitch?

    I don't really get all this role model stuff though. Is it in the footballer's job description that you have to be one rather than it simply being a bonus if you are? Having footballers who aren't as well as are would offer you the opportunity to point out the difference to a child who could then reasonably make the decision to like the one who is better than the one who isn't. Or, perversely, do the opposite. But I think the only thing that should really be required on a footballer's job description should read something along the lines of - good at football.

    In all of this there's the danger of trial by tabloids and their readers. Then you end up with the ridiculous situation of the England football captain (and a very good one) being forced out of the captaincy (and the team!) because he had an affair with his ex team-mate's ex partner. And that just to sell a few newspapers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  11. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Only if Alan Pardew is the pundit.
     
  12. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    A very good and clever point! But I do think there's a distinction between a woman who has voluntarily put herself in a position where she can't remember and an alzheimer's patient who is medically unable to remember. Also that my scenario that she gave her consent, but can't remember having done so, is just as likely as that she was taken advantage of when incapable. To me, it seems a significant move away from 'beyond reasonable doubt' towards a subjective consideration of the balance of probabilities. The alzheimer's patient has almost certainly been robbed although it's also possible that he/she might simply have mislaid something - so tricky I agree yes!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  13. Orny Arry

    Orny Arry Guest

    There's one fact we'll never know; how many people convicted of rape were genuinely guilty.
     
  14. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Habeas corpus. WHOOPS!!!! It would appear that I have, for a number of decades now, been entirely wrong in my presumption that habeas corpus was legal terminology for, and synonymous with, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. At your suggestion, I have now googled it and see it means something entirely different! So please read all my previous references to it in that light and thank you for helping to correct my ignorance.

    I will also bow to your legal knowledge regarding where the law stands around the granting of consent (it doesn't seem very fair though given the presumption of innocence) and the way in which judges direct juries which does seem entirely fair. The female judge I was referring to earlier was, the recently retired, Mary Jane Mowat. Her view was all over the papers on 26 August. She pointed out the difficulties juries have in convicting when a woman says 'I was too drunk to remember' which suggests that, in practise, juries do often find it difficult to convict in those circumstances and take the view that I have been banging on about throughout this thread irrespective of the legal position around consent that you have outlined above.

    This stuff is often confused (sometimes deliberately) with 'she was asking for it'. It isn't that at all. That has no place anywhere. But it is asking a woman if she was really very wise to put herself in such a compromising position and leave herself vulnerable knowing there are some 'bad arse perpetrators' out there. It isn't mounting a defence of the crime of rape or of genuine perpetrators. Senior police officers get similarly criticised when they make the same sorts of comments.
     
  15. fan

    fan slow toaster

    given most other threads, i would have imagined the outrage on this board would have been focused on the fact he only served half his sentence. not because you've all suddenly found several smoking guns which prove his innocence.
     
  16. East Stand Builder

    East Stand Builder Reservist

    Personally after reading into what has happened and that link that was poste, my opinion is that Ched Evans wrongfully found guilty. There's no clear cut information to day that he raped the girl.

    What do I know though, I'm just a kid
     
  17. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    I like black bomber cheese.
     
  18. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    As sure as day is day and night is night, nobody will ever out-legal talk UEA.
     
  19. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I'm the zztop of any legal thread :]]
     
  20. Orny Arry

    Orny Arry Guest

    ....just not so covertly partisan to Cameron, Palin and co.
     
  21. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    I've only read the latter stages of this thread but can I assume, from some people's assertion that Evans was wrongly convicted, that they have seen or heard some piece of evidence that the jury wasn't aware of? Or at least that everyone having such a view has seen and heard ALL the evidence that was presented at court?
     
  22. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I've not read right through this thread so forgive me if this has already been said.

    I think that it would be reasonable if Sheff Utd did not want to take him back, after all what employer inside or outside of football would want to take back a convicted rapist, even one that had served his time. Having said that, I do not think it is reasonable that he should be banned from professional football all together.

    He should be allowed to ply his trade, because he has served his time, and should a professional club be willing to take a chance on him, they should be allowed to sign him IMO.
     
  23. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I wonder if those that think he should be given a chance would change their mind if the girl involved was their wife or daughter.
     
  24. lm_wfc

    lm_wfc First Team

    I'm sure many would, and I'm sure many would change their mind if chef Evans was their husband or son.

    Both would be bias.
     
  25. Rostrons Red Card

    Rostrons Red Card Reservist

    I assume Evans had the best counsel money can buy. Yet he was still convicted beyond reasonable doubt. He IS a rapist. Football should slam the door in his face but alas someone will employ him, even though he is at best an average player who hasn't played for 3 years.

    Personally I think he should be castrated.
     
  26. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    His girlfriend is a mug for staying with him.
     
  27. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    You beauty. Geddin' there!
     
  28. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    No you can't make those assumptions and it's a very fair point.
     
  29. Rostrons Red Card

    Rostrons Red Card Reservist

    Or indeed any crime.

    When I was a kid I used to think that when I shut my eyes everyone else in the world turned in to a vampire. That's what happens when you watch Salems Lot aged nine.

    You can never be sure of anything in life.
     
  30. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Well you're obviously not related to the Voice of Reason.
     
  31. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Might he get a job in the players' canteen?
     
  32. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    [​IMG]
     
  33. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Its amazing how a woman would stay with a rapist and a cheat for money. Isnt it the second time he has cheated on her?
     
  34. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14


    If it was my son I'm not sure I could look him in the eye knowing what he had done. I would certainly understand what others think.
    He is a rapist. He should not be given a job where he is supposed to be a role model. if he had done this before people realised he could score goals I guarantee he would have been sacked and never heard of again. Let's not pretend it's anything about trying to give him a second chance
     
  35. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    He did naff all wrong in my eyes, if he was just a low paid clerk a complaint would never have been made. As far as I'm concerned she knew what she was doing and he's paid for it big time.

    It's no different to the woman that got pregnant by giving Boris Becker a blowjob.
     

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