You're Not Alone

My worry about campaigns such as this is that they seem to assume that everyone has someone to whom they can talk. One of the big mental health issues is a feeling of isolation. If someone feels isolated telling them to talk makes them feel worse. In the Netherlands they are combating this feeling of isolation amongst old people by sharing dogs. Many old people won't have a dog because they worry about what will happen to the dog when they die. The sharing dogs idea not only gives them a companion when they are on their own, it also provides social contact in the sharing process.

 

the feeling of isolation can also be caused because, even if you feel you have people to speak to, they haven’t walked your path and don’t really appreciate your circumstance. Having somebody to talk to that can’t appreciate the place you’re in can be as isolating as not having anybody to speak to in the first place

 

Absolutely.

 

But who knows what path they have walked? It may not be your exact path, but it may be one that allows them some insight into yours.
This is not to suggest that the fear of further proof of isolation is not real, but is it worth a try?
I don’t know; I got through my **** (I think!) in my teens. Have to admit, ‘talking’ was not a big thing back in the early 70s, so advising people to read LOTR, listen to ProgRock, write angst-filled poetry and follow WFC to all parts of the country may not help anymore.
Just please keep trying to trust someone to understand.

 

@Johnny Todd Sings
@Halfwayline

I totally get what you're both saying. But if that lonely, isolated person tries to ask for help, maybe, just maybe, they'll drop lucky and the person they talk to can play a part in setting the wheels in motion to get them on the path to the help and support they need.

I pride myself on being a good listener. (I believe these days we call it being an 'active' listener... } Unfortunately, I'm also not so good at reaching out to people when I myself am at a low ebb, so it's sometimes a lonely, mental road I find myself on. But being strong for others seems to be how I get by.

I'm not really sure what my musings bring to the discussion table; perhaps just try to ask for help...

Keep the Faith

SCG

 

Yes, it's a conundrum. Talking to people is what is needed. Hopefully providing a safe space with active listening will help. My concern is that just telling people to talk may not be helpful, especially if there is no indication of how to do that.

We have mental health posters at work telling us what to do but not how to do it. It smacks of senior management ticking boxes that central government have prescribed. I am making a nuisance of myself by highlighting what I see as the failings of the mental health support, or lack if it. I won't go on but some of what is provided is downright nasty, such as having to identify yourself if you need support.

On a slightly different note. I have set myself a task of having a meaningful conversation of at least 15 minutes at least four times a week. By that I don't mean talking about work at work, or talking about the weather to someone. In my old age I realise that I have a strong tendency towards isolation and I am trying to get out of that lifelong habit. You probably don't remember SCG, but I was always on my own when we met up at northern fourth division grounds.

 

Well now I'm intrigued!!!

Did your username begin with an 'M' on a previous forum?

 

I'm not suggesting people don't reach out...exactly the opposite. But sometimes people who are in a bad place will need to speak to multiple people until they find an individual(s) who can give them what they need to put them on the right path to recovery.

When I lost my wife I was very fortunate as I had many male and female friends I could reach out to. Problem is most of them made me feel even more isolated. Not because they meant to but I didn't really want to speak about football or talk about mundane things. I wanted to understand how I dealt with grieving daughters. Thankfully, I found the right person who was instrumental in making me feel sane again.

The point of this is, if looking for help, be prepared that it may take a number of attempts to speak to different people until you find what you are looking for. Also don't feel aggrieved if the person reaching out then doesn't follow up with you

 

The idea of maybe having to talk to a few people before someone/something brings succour makes sense. I was vaguely thinking of that in the first part of my post, so thanks for stating it so well.

 

Out of curiosity - and feel free to say you'd rather not expand on it - did you try telling these friends what you were looking to talk about but find they'd deflect the topic back again onto (what they perceived as) safer ground? I think it's quite common when it comes to talking about death that a lot of people just won't engage. It's one of the big taboos in our society and I think the lack of openness holds us back. We've ended up slipping in symbolic acts of support - eg. see the pantomime that every other pre-match at Vicarage Road has become with minutes' applause for this and that - rather than the stuff that actually makes a real difference to people.

 

This is a fair question. From my personal experience, when my mum passed many years ago, people ‘didn’t know what to say’ and there was a lot of conversations redirected onto other more ‘friendly’ topics.

 

I can thoroughly endorse what you say about the benefit of talking to multiple people.

I have done a counselling diploma course. One of things we were taught is that the essence of counselling is a therapeutic relationship. So, you can be good at counselling, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to establish a good therapeutic relationship with every prospective client. If the relationship isn't working you need to pass the client on to someone else. Likewise, as a client, if it's not working, try someone else.

I would also add that many people are afraid to talk in a deep and meaningful way to those that are suffering - sometimes because they are fearful of making matters worse; sometimes because the pain of others is too painful for them. This is why prospective counsellors have to be in counselling themselves. You have to deal with your own "stuff" so it doesn't get in the way of helping others deal with their "stuff."

Lastly, I am glad you eventually found someone who helped you feel sane again. Perhaps one day you'll be in a position to do the same for someone else in pain.

 

Most of my friends stayed on safe ground but that just wasn’t where my head was. Many compared to the grief they had suffered but, unfortunately, they were comparing a 48 year old mother to their parents who died in their 80s and 90s which just riled me (don’t judge it was the place I was in).

however, having said all that, I truly don’t remember 6 years on a bad thing that anybody who reached out said to me but I do fully remember those that stayed away. The latter are no longer “friends”

 

I have spent the last 6 years being introduced to people who have lost partners. Some women are just looking for guidance, some are looking for advice on how to set up the WiFi, some men are looking to understand when there will be light at the end of the tunnel, some just want to talk to somebody whose worn their shoes

I have met some new good friends along the way. And this year we’ve been invited to a woman’s wedding who’s getting remarried after losing her partner 5 years ago. I have received an invite after speaking to her multiple times on a call BUT the first time we will meet in person is in the church. Quite surreal

 

I’m not surprised you were riled. I would have been too. Many people try in effect to say “I know how you feel because so-and-so happened to me too.” One thing I learnt from my counselling course is that everyone’s experience is different. Even if exactly the same has happened to you, it doesn’t mean you know how someone feels. You only learn how someone feels by asking them and listening without judgement or jumping to conclusions.

 

I am so glad that you have been able to use your journey to help others through theirs.

 

I have just been diagnosed with ASD and possible additional ADHD/ADD, apparently I have OCD like behaviours also. Co-morbidities of anxiety, stress tolerance, unhelpful overthinking, self esteen/ self worth issues, mood and emotion management, impulsivities and sensory issues. No wonder I like it here. IQ of 120 yet no desire or motivation to do anything with it, brilliant. Probably being too open here but fvck it, you only live an infinite number of times.

 

? I dont understand why you are sorry to hear that, the discovery of ones true self is the only reason we are here after all no matter the truth. Feel sorry for the ones that dont know and are blind. Ignorance can be bliss though.

 

Ha!

Not laughing at you by the way, just that comment did make me chuckle.

 

Agreed . It actually puts a lot of pressure on our loved ones to expect they can provide answers , when really the best person to talk to is a professional , if you can afford it .

 

You are all bloody awesome. Keeping this going despite a testing football season again.

Best thread ever!

 

@Klein Lust - really hope you don’t mind me tagging you but saw you mention about wondering if others here shared their experiences with mental health.

There are some wonderfully uplifting and positive posts on this thread and following me being open about a particularly negative period of mental health a while back I received some wonderful support from my peers here.

I hope you’re keeping well, and please do keep us updated on how your careers go on the FIFA thread. It takes me back to my misspent youth and makes me wish I had the time to play still now!

 

Thanks for thinking about me @wfcwarehouse I’ll take a look at the posts defo. Glad you seem to be out of your negative period.

As for putting my fifa stories on here, I get the impression nobody cared too much about them, so I probably won’t be putting stuff on here, probs

 

DMs open for anyone that wants to talk. I've been there myself. I'm happy to listen.

 

I've been umming and ahhing for a while whether to post in this thread but I've read it over the years and it's always given a sense of comfort to read that people are going through similar things, or sometimes very different things but which nevertheless resonate. I've had talking therapy on and off over the past six or seven years and that's always helped ward off the dark fog, or at least remind me there's light beyond it.

This past year, the fog has not been particularly dark but it's been relentless and leaves me with a sense of nothingness. I've been asking myself the question: 'What do you do when you stop loving what you do?' and that applies to lots of things – work as well as hobbies and interests. I've tried throwing myself into a couple of things to try to sort of jump-start myself but everything just leaves a sense of 'meh', like no matter what I do the engine won't restart or if it does splutter into life it cuts out again shortly afterwards.

I know I'm very fortunate in lots of ways. I can set my own agenda workwise, to an almost total degree, which is perhaps part of the problem. 31 years of work, 25+ years as a freelancer being self-motivated, driven by devising and completing projects, and ruled by deadlines has taken its toll. I look back at the stresses and strains of work over the years and although they felt absolutely critical, and often exciting, at the time it all feels sort of pointless now.

Losing my friend and business partner at 48 has just made me wonder what the point of it all is. He poured everything into his work and didn't make the half-century. Subconsciously is that something that has forced me to opt out, draw back, fearful that the same thing might happen to me? It's not often been a conscious thought but it's something the therapist suggested could be lurking in the back of my mind and I think there's some truth in that.

Losing my Dad a couple of years ago was less of a shock as he was nearly 80 so we all know it's going to happen at some point or other, but because of a freak set of circumstances I ended up having to watch his funeral on a live stream because I was unable to attend and there's a recurring anger at the circumstances that led to that, as well as guilt, plus the fact the rest of my family have not really helped me reach any sort of closure. His ashes are still in a box in our spare room and any attempt to discuss what to do with them has been shut down before it even starts.

It feels a bit odd, and exposing, to type all this out on a day like today when the aim is to raise awareness of people who are going through really dark times. I'm not, nor have ever been, susceptible to those worst thoughts – because I also know I'm too cowardly to ever do anything drastic – and in a way that makes it even more confusing. To feel a numbness with flashes of superficial feelings that sometimes kid me that I'm getting back to 'normal' also makes it seem like I'm an imposter. Pretty much every therapy session I've had has included the words: "This sounds really trivial but..." or "I know this isn't really a problem..." The nothingness makes me feel like I'm gloomy about nothing, should pull myself together, just get on with it...

 

Thank you for sharing some difficult personal thoughts with those of us on the forum. For what it's worth, ETG, I'm a slightly earlier Hornets vintage to you and now well into my first decade of retirement. I stress I'm not comparing/contrasting your experience with mine but I offer a few thoughts that might resonate (?).

I know I took some time to adjust to changes after what seemed at the time a relentless career doing what I thought was important work. Within 6 months of retirement I was looking back and sometimes wondered about the pointless nature of that (stressful) effort in managing/motivating a relatively senior team to do more, to achieve better etc etc. That sharp removal from the working environment produced doubts about my own future self-worth and created an odd disconnect for me which required much consideration of whether to remove myself completely from contact with old colleagues/friends, which fortunately I didn't. It was conversations with like-minded people in a social setting which quite quickly reset my perspective and which I'm grateful to those I talked to and continue to do so. My work had been important sometimes (not always) and for the public who didn't know what I was doing in my worker-ant way for them. But it was the internal working relationships and the people you regularly interacted with that provided the richest memories/experiences rather than the drier outcomes that had been managed or masterminded, the point of which soon gets overtaken by time. That sort of mind reset did me a big favour.

Last thought on this, is that I regularly dip into my extensive Hornets literature from Peloton Publishing, Trefor Jones, Oli Phillips etc - when comments on old games, old players crop up including from this forum recalling Ross Jenkins (v1.0) or Ross Jenkins (v2.0) for example - and this brings back grand memories of glorious trips with my old schoolmates on Watford coaches or just to the Vic to see those astonishing triumphs we all revelled in as well as the disastrous thumpings that we all suffered and had to grin and bear! I find it's the people (some of who you lose on the way) and the shared memories that still count and can deliver that rounded purpose too.

 

@EnjoytheGame
@westbridgfordhornet

IMHO, it's an ongoing process of re-evaluation. About everything. About one's own life. (Pseud's Corner; Private Eye (c))

EtG
Scatter your Dad's ashes wherever you reckon he would've (would of (c) Skyla) liked them scattered. Fcuk dithering family boll ocks!!!

WBH
And just this very night, I watched the West Ham 2 4 Watford highlights that happened to pop up on FB. And all was well in my world...

 

As the song goes guys...

"Always look on the bright side of life"

 

Thanks @Steel City Gold. 8 year anniversary of that Hammers away match I gather, so I watched those highlights again myself last night. How clever were those goals especially the Deeney chip and the Capoue shot! You also sparked my memory of a midweek match at Upton Park in Feb 1984, I can remember the absolutely hostile atmosphere pre-match and early on when West Ham took the lead. Like 2016 we came roaring back at them to eventually get the same score of 2-4 with John Barnes (2), Mo Johnston and a 25yd Nigel Callaghan free kick (Chakvetadze-style!). Couldn't locate video footage unfortunately, boo!!

 

Changing the subject slightly..I recently went to see a medium. Have to say I was highly sceptical about it but some of the info I was given blew me away and definitely couldn’t have been researched

happy to share the number via DM if anybody wants to try

 

Thank you for this ETG. You seem to be suffering from what many men, particularly older men, suffer from. We were brought up to believe that our significance was defined by the job we did. Today people change careers two or three times. This behaviour brings self doubt to those of us who learnt the previous paradigm. Consequently we wonder what the point has been in everything that we have done in terms of work. This doubt can then spread into other things that we do. What job we do does not define us. I can write that but does that remove the sense of futility I feel about my 'important' job? Of course it doesn't. The reason for that is that we haven't found out what does truly define us. To put the question bluntly, "What defines a man in his 50s, 60s, and 70s?" There probably isn't one answer to that but that doesn't help at all. We thrash around looking for meaning in it all and when we can't see that meaning we feel lost.

On the positive side this can change. I have seen men 'retire' to start new jobs as hobbies which turn into life-fulfilling activities. One friend retired, was a bit lost, then his wife died suddenly and he was totally lost. A series of accidental links resulted in him standing in for someone who did meals-on-wheels delivering hot food to people older than he is. He now does this four days a week and it gives him more joy and internal sense of worth than any of the praise he got for his 'important' job. His social circle has expanded way beyond what it was before and he now feels more confident that people like him for who he is rather than what he is (or was, to be more correct).

You are not an impostor. We can only feel what we feel as an individual. The worst thing that has ever happened to you is the worst thing that you have been able to feel. You can't feel what other people feel. What is a problem to you is a problem to you. Whether someone else would think of it as a problem isn't the point. Neither is whether someone else has worse problems. As a kid I used to hate it when a friend's mother would say to her son. "What have you got to complain about? Look at Johnny. He's been through far worse and he doesn't complain." What I had been through had got nothing to do with what her son was going through at that time! It is not a competition. Still gets me angry. Sorry.

 

Sorry, I'm not attempting to get into a back and forth with you over this on this thread; if your experience brought you some help or closure then that's great and I'm pleased for you.

But I would urge anyone reading this comment and considering it to at least research the concept of 'cold reading' before deciding to go down this route. Not to mention the work of James Randi.