Wfc Finances

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by We hate 48, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Spoke too soon.
     
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  2. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Can someone that understands this stuff explain it? I can't see any reference to a value of Vicarage Road that would give an indication of how much has been borrowed. And what's all the other stuff also included in the charge? Is it standard?
     
  3. About to buy a few £15m defenders :)?
     
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  4. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist


    It looks pretty standard and that lender is also financing the monies due from Udinese for RP and GD which was the only other debt we had. Basically everything the club owns is charged-TV monies/players/ground.

    How much is being borrowed and for how long will not be disclosed publicly as its an unregulated commercial loan between responsible parties. We will have to wait for either the June 2021 accounts when they are published between now and March 22 (if the club want to disclose post year end information -they are not obliged to) or the June 22 accounts by March 2023.

    As to the value of the ground then the last accounts had a figure of £92m (!) which was revalued from £30m the previous year. I am no valuer but it appears to be conditional on getting planning for non football related purposes. The valuer -a respected firm- will be mindful of the valuation rules under which it carried out its calculations on the "DRC basis" (don't ask) which include the following-
    "The DRC method is conceptually unsuitable for use as the sole or primary valuation method for secured lending purposes"
     
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  5. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    So in summary Pozzo has used every single asset and revenue stream available to secure a new loan. I look forward to more Pussetto type arrangements in the coming window.

    In the words of Jon G, “It’s simply good husbandry”.
     
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  6. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    I'm sure a certain journalist will give a very wishy washy explanation tomorrow #SubToTheAthletic
     
  7. RS2

    RS2 Reservist

    So has Gino got a massive **** off loan so he can go crazy in the January window? He's only gone and done it again hasn't he, what a ledge.
     
  8. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Absolute friggin ledge this guy, what a bloke, link in the description down below, like and subscribe to Gino's page
     
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  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Maybe its standard practice in current times, I don't know - but borrowing against the ground always seemed like a murky area to go into in past years. Has caused a big number of clubs issues in the past.

    I didn't like Gino levying debt everywhere he could before - but I always somewhat grateful that (I think) the stadium was always kept away from such dealings. Borrowing against the clubs home worries me.

    I don't think the case for outside investment has ever been as clear as it is now.
     
  10. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It's been used as security for various loans since at least 2018 I believe. Plus I'm pretty sure the normal overdraft facility the club has from Barclays (and has had for a couple of decades) has been secured against the stadium throughout.
     
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  11. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Thats fair enough I guess. I did put in 'I think' for security as I didn't actually know!

    But borrowing against the stadium still worries me!
     
  12. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    There was some chat on here - possibly on this thread - a couple of months ago about it. I'd definitely prefer if we weren't doing borrowing at all and agree with your point about it being a sign outside investment is needed.
     
  13. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    Of course not. They would be talking up the season before it started.
    In the background, they would have looked at the relegation possibilities.
     
  14. Eric IS Bananman

    Eric IS Bananman Academy Graduate

    My only issue with that is the potential boardroom struggles that come with it.

    I remember the power struggle when Rumi Verjee was co-owner and the fighting with the rest of the board and more recently the Russos threatening to take us into administration because of the power struggle with Ashcroft.

    Both instances nearly ripped the club apart.
     
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  15. RS2

    RS2 Reservist

    Surely the Pozzo family know some wealthy idiots they can trick into investing in a train wreck of a football club?
     
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    True. But we could source outside investment whilst Gino retains control if he so wishes - though I do accept that brings its own challenges and is harder to find.

    But the concern for me is borrowing against the ground and then suddenly the owner loses interest in the club and pulls all financial backing etc. Tumbling down the leagues is one thing - potentially losing your stadium to creditors is another thing all together.
     
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  17. Eric IS Bananman

    Eric IS Bananman Academy Graduate

    I agree - after the 'Buy back The Vic' campaign, I 'd prefer the freehold remained untouched unless the very existence of the club is in jeopardy.

    The question for outside investment is if they put in, let's say £10m, it's safe to say they'll want some input - unless we get a Kroenke type who doesn't really care about the football and just wants a return. However, taking out dividends means less money for the club - we all remember Simpson and Ashton doing exactly that.

    It's a tough one.
     
  18. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    I think you need to be talking £100m minimum to even touch the sides.
     
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  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Well it depends on what fans want really - if we desperately want PL football to continue then the window for Gino to compete whilst working as we do is getting smaller and smaller - and quickly. Outside investment is an absolute necessity in the coming years if thats what fans want.

    He can keep operating as he is and likely maintain a status as a yo-yo club for a few years....but the luck eventually runs out. And do we really believe Gino would stick around if we tumbled down to be a mid-table or lower Championship team? No chance I'd say personally. Thats when the amount he has leveraged against the club would become really problematic I think.

    This is why I think it's fairly incumbent on the owner to come out soon and tell its exactly what the genuine vision is. Outside investment? More money put into youth development? Stay at VR/new ground?

    Just saying 'we want to be in the PL but we have to work differently because we can't compete financially' isn't really a vision or plan anymore - but I suspect that is exactly what they would say.
     
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  20. Eric IS Bananman

    Eric IS Bananman Academy Graduate

    Fair comment. If you look at the Czech business man who's just bought 27% of West Ham, I'm pretty sure he'll want a voice.
     
  21. Eric IS Bananman

    Eric IS Bananman Academy Graduate

    I'm not sure we'll be sold as the riches in the PL far outweigh Serie A. I suppose it depends how long Giampaolo wants to keep going at Udinese as I can see them being sold before us.

    Realistically, the potential suitors will either be from Saudi Arabia, Russia or China - unless Jay Demerit has some seriously rich friends in the US.

    I take your point about the fans expectations and if I'm honest I'd prefer a less firefighting policy with the head coaches. I hate Burnley and the way they play but they're a well run club. I agree with you, I think it's time for Gino to hire a head coach and allow him to build a dynasty if he's in it for the long haul.

    The example I covet is Gasperini at Atalanta - he's been allowed to develop and rebuild the playing side over 5 years and they're one of the most exciting teams to watch and are now experiencing Champions League football - their wage bill is similar to ours (£300k p/year more than us).
     
  22. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Given recent events and the understandable reaction from fans not sure people would be happy with that ?

    Or maybe from a football point of view they won’t mind ?
     
  23. Eric IS Bananman

    Eric IS Bananman Academy Graduate

    Putting aside the backlash against Newcastle, the majority of owners are either American (most) and Chinese with spatterings from Russia and Middle/Far east. If we were to get outside investment then I'd place a small wager on Chinese first (they sold Granada to a Chinese consortium) or American (Gino went to Harvard Business School - so there's a tenuous link).
     
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  24. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    What happened to that seriously wedged Watford fan who owned part of McDonalds?

    EDIT: Steve Easterbrook - was dismissed in 2019 for (allegedly) having an affair with an employee which was against company policy.

    Supposedly worth $50m though.
     
  25. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

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  26. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Not suitable - he's either a clown or a thief.
     
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  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Gold and Sullivan are no spring chickens though - I suspect the Czech guy has got first dibs on any sell off of their shares.
     
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  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Bassini never owned McDonalds.

    He’d try though.
     
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  29. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

  30. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    I heard he tried to convince an Asian bank he did...just forgot to mention the one he meant was an almost bankrupt hotel chain.
     
  31. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Lies. The only Asians Bassini knows are ones he meets in hotel rooms.

    We have all seen the video.
     
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  32. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    That I can agree with and it would be stupid not to consider what to do if we went down
     
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  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Mogi Bayet has had a good couple of years I hear.
     
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  34. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks I had just purged that from my memory.
     
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  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I show it to my wife every now and then just to prove that I’m not the ‘worst guy on earth’ when the accusation is slung my way.
     
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