Wfc Finances

Wonder if Udinese have to borrow money for the fee we owe for "purchasing" Pussetto. Or if we paid it up front in one lump sum.

 

The latest loan is the third instalment of the transfer of RP -€8.075m each time so around £20m in all. We took out a loan in April against the instalment due in September 21 as well as the one in June for Feb'22's payment-that was alongside the loan for the transfer of GD -that was for €11.4m-so its anyone's guess what Udinese paid for him as well if you are borrowing against instalments rather than the total transfer fee.

 

I'm not in finance but I thinking taking loans against income is normal in business? I might be wrong in that but I'm fairly certain my old company took out loans to pay wages based on future income

 

Is it normal to take them out when the income is coming from a sister-company under the same ownership? Genuine question for anyone with better knowledge.

 

The lender will take that into account or otherwise you can just create assets to borrow against endlessly. We owe Udi £10m, Udi owe us £10m. Hooray - let’s borrow £20m.

 

Not sure to be honest. It is different owners even though they are the same family. I think Gino owns us and his dad owns Udinese or do I have that wrong?

 

Would company/tax law not be potentially completely different in Italy? And so hence have an influence on the who, what, why and how things were done in terms of any deals between the clubs?

 

Yep.

 

Yes and companies play around with this to an extent but transfer pricing rules mean that any such transactions must always be at arms length for tax purposes....cough, Pussetto, cough....

 

Wouldn't be an issue as long as the lender could see that the income from a fellow group company was secured to support the loan and could be accessed if needed.

 

Fair enough - but also….yikes. Do we really think Udinese have shown they have the ability to pay this type of money on immediate request?

Won’t go overboard. But it’s a concern. I’ve just got a concern we are banking on a PL survival windfall and, as a result, it ends up a debt (loan) we end up swallowing ourselves, whilst Udinese get Pereyra & Deulofeu for peanuts/free.

But as we all know, I’m admittedly very worried and dubious of our finances so I accept that’s the view I’d take!

 

Oh I'm concerned too and think we'd have been in real trouble if we hadn't bounced straight back up, mainly due to the impact of covid on the resale value of our player assets. It's down to any lender to assure themselves that they have security against asset or dedicated identifiable income stream...if they feel it's risky, that will be reflected in the rates offered. No idea how solvent/asset rich the Pozzos are from their other businesses but I'm sure they will stretch our asset base and income streams to fund the business. Another relegation and another lockdown could be interesting but may be part of the reason we've not spent too heavily in the summer.

 

CRO shows the club has now repaid Barclays (well the security they held has been released)-we borrowed from them against TV money.

This means that
1/ the parent company Hornets Investment Ltd has not pledged any assets to anyone now
2/ the club only has given security to Macquarie bank for the transfers fees owed by Udinese for GD and RP

That looks to me like we have repaid all other external debt or the Pozzos have put some of their own money in to fund the business. In either event we at last look like we are over the financial problems previously highlighted.

Whether they are clearing the decks to sell or prepare for relegation or fund some purchases in January to try and stay up/support CR in a tangible way well who knows-i wont be looking at "Inside the Hive" for any clue!

 

Good news. The financial approach seems much more measured the last 2 years it must be said.

 

We Hate 48, thanks for putting this up and explaining it, sounds positive.

 

Despite not understanding the finer points of finance, given the six likes this received, I made the effort to read it together with the post it quoted as I figured it'd be worth it. Glad to hear the financial situation is looking better than many of us feared.

 

I think relegation gave them a kick up the backside.

I wonder whether anyone at the club watched Sunderland 'Til I die on Netflix and realised that was the likely alternative if the ship wasn't put in order.

 

This is interesting, if true.
Gino already has an eye on a quick return to the Championship.
It has been put forward by a few, myself included, that relegation was always the business plan for Watford, with survival being a forlorn hope given the weakness of the squad.
If Gino doesn't have the confidence then how can anyone moan at the fans for lack of support in the belief that Watford will survive in the Premier league.

'Okoye sat down with Transfermarkt in Germany to talk about the transfer, explaining that when a club like Watford come knocking.
He said: “Watford with club owner Gino Pozzo simply won me over, with the talks and the trust. They brought me as number one for the Premier League and the Championship.

“I believe in the quality of the team. I pray and hope they stay up. It has to work with this manager”

 

"...relegation was always the business plan for Watford..."
Utter piffle.

 

I do not agree.
Somewhere at Watford relegation from the Premier league was discussed prior to this season beginning. The lack of investment on the playing side and the obvious weakness of our squad would have been looked at and a plan hatched for the inevitability of relegation from the Premier league.
Prudent housekeeping you could say or financial caution in order for the survival of the club as a business.
We may have no plan B on the pitch, but we do for sure have a plan B in the boardroom.

 

Hahahaha

 

Bear in mind this is the same chap who was confidently predicting relegation from the Championship last year. He may have a slightly negative mindset.

 

theendisnearsimpsons.gif

 

The clubs plan is to fail?! Have day off mate. You really talk an amazing amount of tosh

 

Yes l did. I lost €100 on that bet.
This season l have put on €20 that Watford will not get more than 11 pts. Looks likely l will lose that as well.
My €50 bet on relegation should romp home,
Then again, l remember reading about a horse called 'Devon Lock' ... Just my luck

 

Let's wait and see ok.

 

How can relegation be a business plan? It's taken into consideration yes but it certainly ain't a plan.

 

Doubt you got great odds though !
It would be negligent not to have a Plan B of how the club survives financially if we are relegated. It may well be that having a viable Plan B impacts Plan A, ie you can't spend what you'd really like to under Plan A, if Plan B is going to be viable. Having "relegation" as Plan A would never be the case though.

 

Pay more attention when reading.

Devon Loch.

Here To Help.

 

Wait and see? You state they plan to be relegated. I'm sure they have a plan if we are relegated but I'm sure they didn't say at the start of the season, "right chaps, we need to finish in the bottom 3"

 

We have taken out another loan secured against VR and other assets.

 

Link?

 

Pay off one loan, get another almost immediately.

#doingbusinessproperly

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00104194/filing-history

Look at the registration of charge from the 12th.