1. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I think that the social media/forum meaning of "crap", is anything that isn't "brilliant".
     
  2. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    We were crap. I never said our music was crap. It's not a hard concept to understand really is it. I think you are confused because your original comments haven't worked out how you expected have they?
     
  3. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    You were crap but your music wasn't? Who the f*** was playing the music?
     
  4. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    Well we were blindfolded and balancing on our heads.......
     
  5. PotGuy

    PotGuy Forum Fetishist

    I don't know if this has been said yet, but Spotify Discover can really introduce some heroically obscure songs for those times when you are sick of listening to the same farking music
     
  6. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    Deezer Flow every now and then throws me some really random choices. Some are hilarious. Example - It goes from Carter USM to Suede to Lady Gaga and into Jamiruqaui. I' d live to know the algorythm behind that!
     
  7. It sounds like the algorythm is basically "play a randon song for our entire library"
     
  8. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    Yep. It picked a classical song once. Then decided I'm a musical ****** based on my musical tastes and changed it to The Clash. Nice one Deezer.
     
  9. Ah but is The Clash better music than classical ? Warrants a debate surely ?
     
  10. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    Approach that debate with extreme caution....
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  11. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Well seeing as I've been away from here for a bit and I kicked this thread off maybe this would be a good place to reappear.

    I thought my o.p. was pretty clear. I was talking about music that 'speaks to me' and relating how nearly all manufactured, modern, popular musak doesn't speak to me (with a few exceptions) but then came across a new young guitarist/songwriter (Quinn Sullivan) who did. Having googled him, he's been around as a prodigy for a bit anyway though.

    There then ensues an unanticipated debate between Mollyboo (classical music snob) and everyone else led by GoBE and a few others. I'm not sure what that debate's about really. Most of us others would recognise that classical music is more technologically complex (particularly at the orchesteral and composer level) than popular music but that doesn't make it 'better'. Many things in life are better understood when the detail is removed and the issue is reduced to its bare bones. So it isn't just about the number of chords at all.

    So music that 'speaks to me' is never classical music. Music that makes me want to put my clog down on the motorway and wind it up from 80 to 90 or kick that Scummer just a wee bit harder. Those tracks would include Hard to Handle - Black Crowes, I Won't Back Down - Petty, Glory Days - Springsteen and The Hunter - Free. Then there's a bit more whimsical and to the point. Big Yellow Taxi - Joni (gorgeous), One Day Like This - Elbow, Time Has Told Me - Nick Drake and Rambling Man - Laura Marling (also very lovely). And, the best of all, - Time - Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon.

    Where classical music might have the edge is in evoking a particular scene. Holst's - The Planets - albeit a rather romantic look at the planets rather than what they're really like. The William Tell Overture. The Sorcerer's Apprentice. But popular music can do it too. Albatross - Fleetwood Mac.

    So I think it's a false argument but GoBE et al have had the better of it. Shame GoBE (who has far more detailed knowledge here than me) comes across as similarly arrogant re. Brexit.
     
  12. Reading through this thread makes me realise that I apparently know very little about music - other than, that is, what my grandfather taught me. To him (and now to me) any piece of music was fine as long as it met his four basic criteria. It must have a 'good tune', the lyrics must be clearly sung, it must be 'earthy' and it must be from 'his era' (30's/40's) - although I personally prefer later eras.

    Just before he died in 2011, we asked him what music he would like played at his funeral - and he reiterated that anything was fine as long as it met his four long-standing criteria. To my mother's horror, I fetched a laptop, opened up YouTube and played him this -




    It brought a huge smile to his face and I know he died a happy man not much later. Needless to say, his funeral service was a very private one at mum's insistence.
     
    wfcmoog, KelsoOrn and oxhey67 like this.
  13. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Brilliant!
     
  14. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    I'm guessing you mean 'technically complex' - and whilst this is obviously true, that is only one part of what makes classical music interesting, intruiging and ultimately better than the other stuff you mention.

    It is utterly mind-boggling how any of the great composers wrote such intricate, perfect music on such a grand scale, but it's quite easy to see how any of the pi$$ed/drugged up bands in this thread came up with the same old chords, same old bass lines and same old rhythms that have been done to death and back

    But that again is only part of it.



    There is absolutely nothing snobby about recognising this fact - and if classical music doesn't speak to you, that's possibly because music is a language that you don't really understand. I imagine you enjoying music must be like me in a foreign land enjoying the sound of chattering and laughing in cafes and squares even though I don't recognise a single word - and that's fine too.

    A lot of music is intended to be danced to, exercised to, travelled in lifts to, headbanged to, get high to - and that's fine. But the music is worthless as it is only secondary to and serving the main purpose, i.e dancing, exercising etc.

    Classical music IS the main event, so it has to be so much more than a good rhythm or a catchy couple of notes, which makes it better all ends up.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  15. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    You are indeed a complete c.nt.
     
  16. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Oh f*** it.

    It's like trying to explain what red is to blind people. I'm out.
     
  17. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Good. F.ck off then.
     
  18. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Currently down the boozer on AC/DC ...
     
    Mollyboo likes this.
  19. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    I gave you every opportunity...
     
  20. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    You are indeed an arrogant c.nt. And if I see down the Vic. next season I'll give you a damned good kicking ...
     
  21. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    I doubt you'd kick your way out of a damp paper bag without giving yourself a hernia. Best give your replacement hip a rest and enjoy your half of mild and a pipe, grandad.
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.

  22. I also have far more detailed knowledge than you on Brexit. :)
    However it is lovely to see you two having a go at each other.
    [​IMG]
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  23. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    There is plenty of 'classical', particularly symphonic music which is as repetitive and dull as predictable uninspired popular music is. Much of it suffers from tedious and obvious repetition of motifs, alternating crescendos and softer sections for no other reason other than it was the fashion to do so. When it's great it's truly magnificent, some of human kind's greatest achievements, but a mixed bag and no monopoly on greatness.

    There is a reason why classical music is largely of a higher quality. For a start the entry bar is higher, but its also because it is largely a heritage and stuff that is uniformly crap got dumped years back. Modern classical music rarely invades the canon.

    I agree a lot of pop music is throwaway, but pop and all the associated types of popular music has produced many artists who are every bit as genius as Johan Sebastian. It is music that describes your modern world in as forceful a way as classical music describes an eternal inner world. In one hundred years when we just listen to the essence of popular music it will also seem a pretty fine heritage.
     
  24. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    I prefer CPE to JS Bach, myself.

    But I also like The Ruts, so presumably my view can be discounted.
     
    Moose likes this.
  25. oxhey67

    oxhey67 Squad Player

    I'm indifferent to classical music, preferred guitar based indie/counter culture bands in the past and now search out 'world' music often with a folk(lore)/traditional/oral history background.

    I don't always understand the lyrics but am often moved by the sheer emotion that often comes through.

    The voice can be an astonishing instrument in itself, especially coupled with stories that recount abysmal suffering or the utmost joyous traditions passed down through the ages. It can be raw, it can punch you in the gut and it can lift you right back up again. It can also be utterly bland and ineffective, just like any other instrument in any other genre.

    Music is multi dimensional and is heard in many different ways by many different people. It's felt, not just listened to.
    Classical music may well be more technically challenging or intellectually absorbing than others but, to me, that doesn't necessarily mean it's better.

    Music depends on who the audience is as much as who or what is being played.
    If the audience doesn't enjoy it it's irrelevant if it's rock, pop, soul, classical, folk or whatever - it hasn't had a positive effect so in that moment is of no worth.

    Find the right listener(s) and whatever music is being played at that moment can be the best in the world.

    That is the beauty of music.
     
    Moose likes this.
  26. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    The Ruts are a good case in point. Not the sustained brilliance of classical genius, not the beauty or naturalism of some classics, but **** me, the dynamism, the sheer thrill of Babylon’s Burning or West One Shine on Me. Music that perfectly described how those times felt like.
     
    Keighley likes this.
  27. PhilippineOrn

    PhilippineOrn First Team

    Madame Butterfly was considered 'pop' in it's day.
     
  28. Is "The World At War" better than "Breaking Bad"?
     
  29. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Spot on.

    Is “Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night” better than “The Old Man and the Sea”?

    Is Mark Rothko better than Andreas Gursky?
     
  30. Grrwood

    Grrwood Reservist

    This is a point that music snobs do not seem to get. Just to preface - I'm a semi-pro classically trained musician and play as many different musical styles that I can. Used to do lots of orchestral but spend more time playing jazz and pop stuff recently. Music evokes a primal instinct in my opinion, it's all about how it a listener feel. Good music is good music, it doesn't matter what genre it's from. There are huge numbers of classical works that are dull as dishwater. Then you get something like Dvorak's New World Symphony with these powerful emotion filled chords at the end that without feel make your hairs stand on end.

    I think a major difference between things like that and current music is how easy it is to get lost in lyrics. The music hides behind the lyrics more often than not when it comes to expressing emotions, and it's tricky to get that balance right. I would use Adele as an example who gets this balance right a lot of the time - I am not a huge fan but I find myself reacting to some of her songs in the same way as a lot of classical music. Artists like MJ, Jamiroquai etc whom I am big fans of are primarily for dancing to - well that's fine too and is as much a musical skill as writing a symphony. It's all about context.
     
  31. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Rock&Roll eh? Raw, to the point and visceral. Self-evidently if, in your arrogance, you continue to fail to see the distinction between better and different then you will indeed need it beating into you.

    I wasn't looking for a fight with my return post. It was perfectly fair and even handed but you pal are a one-trick pony with tunnel vision on a single track line. Sad really.

    Meanwhile all bones and internal workings intact here, enjoy a pint and a malt, never smoked, no kids. 6ft, 16st, not a lot of extra.

    Nobody really believes I'm genuinely entitled to an o.a.p. season ticket next season until they see my driving licence.

    Rock&Roll eh? Keeps ya young. Try it some time.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  32. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Nope. You're more of an economist than me is all. That isn't the same thing as having a 'more detailed knowledge of Brexit' at all.
     
  33. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    What is wrong with you?

    I ask out of genuine concern as you seem very very angry at a lot things or people and I’m not sure threats of violence are the way to go.
     
  34. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Plenty of others called Mollyboo out on this thread before me. I'm just more succinct.
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    For what it’s worth, I have worked within music ever since leaving school at 16, and have 17 years experience of working at a major label.

    Music is cultural and is about personal taste and feelings. You simply cannot profess that one composer in charge of 100 musicians playing pieces of music over 15 minutes is any better or worse than one guy with a guitar playing a 3 minutes song consisting of 3 chords or notes. Because both are designed to emit feelings and you can’t tell someone what the feel is better or worse than what you feel.
     
    wfcSinatra and KelsoOrn like this.

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