Vladimir Ivic - Sacked

Bit harsh. He's been our best player this season.

 

Ivic was brought in as a disciplinarian to remove the toxicity in the dressing room, change the culture of the club and bring through the talented, hungry, younger players and it worked. Then the whispering started about the younger players' lack of experience and step by step the toxicity returned to the dressing room. Deeney was desperate for a move during the transfer window. Pimping himself out to all and sundry to keep his 'brand value' high. He was desperate for a move until the last seconds of the window. 64 days after the window closed his conflict with the manager ended with the manager being sacked. It took that cant 64 fooking days to get Ivic out of the club. Deeney will destroy the credibility of any Watford manager he can't bend to his will. Just ask Walter Mazzari. Gino bows down to Troy once again. It's embarassing.

 

Its a distraction for the players, like Deeneys bull$h1t in the media. We need focus and single mindedness not youtubers and mediawhores.

 

How do you know?

 

There’s a lot of assumptions in there that you don’t know are true. And obviously you’ve made them all about Deeney again and ignored the wider picture. And you’ve not answered the simple question either...

Baffling. The first thing you said was you’d remove Deeney and Capoue and then do some other stuff. Then I asked if you’d have done all that and kept Ivic in charge as you hadn’t said - you’ve proceeded to just have another rant about Deeney in response to that.

You’d already removed Deeney as your first action.

 

i disagree

 

Troy Deeney didn't get Mazzarri sacked.

 

Don’t see Troy has done anything wrong, but clearly there was no relationship between him and Ivic. Troy may have simply being polite to Ivic if he was eating, rather than go over and interrupt. Ivic does come across as someone with no personality. Nothing wrong with his disciplined approach, but you need some people skills to go with it.

 

There’s nothing to disagree with. You set out some actions (one of which was to remove Deeney) and I’ve asked if you’d have done all those actions and kept Ivic in charge or would you have still sacked him? You haven’t even acknowledged that question and have just ranted about Deeney again - even though you’ve removed him in your blueprint for moving forward.

 

He paid her £500 to stand there with that placard. He's not stupid.

 

I grant you, Capoue has looked poor but it looked like the team was told not to press, don't support the attackers and hold on to 0-0 and try and nick something in the final 20 mins. That does not sound like something players would buy in to and I agree with them. If I'm told at work to do things constantly which obviously don't work it is hard to continuously give your best for something which is flawed. That's my view that maybe not everybody agrees with but suspect many do. The players are not without blame in all of this and some have not been good enough but I do believe the system wasn't right for the players

 

I’m not disputing that they lie. I’m merely pointing out the football results and league tables are probably not fabricated and you are bringing your extreme politics into a discussion about the sports section which is weird.

 

Yeah but Corbyn....

 

The horrendous Pozzo model cultivates a toxic atmosphere so it’s not surprise the players revolt year after year and throw their toys at the slightest bit of discipline. If it wasn’t the Mail you’d be nodding in agreement. But no. It’s the Mail so your politics won’t allow you to consider that they might just be right on this one.

We are unprofessional and incompetent from top to bottom. Doesn’t need the Mail to say that.

 

No one will ever get a true story of what caused the final rift between deeney and Ivic , normally it is a mixture of both stories.

As the captain Deeneys role would be to convey any concerns of his team mates to the manager, I expect this was quite frequent due to the lack of direction, team selection, formation etc along with the phones and overnight stay stories.

Man management is required to prevent any unrest in the squad spiralling out of control, if Deeney acted unprofessional he should have been just dropped and the reasons made public, not just left on the bench where he could have some influence of the playing squad.

Also the” I will be sacked in 5 months” could just be his way of saying i am not suitable or qualified to be manager., as far as I can recall he has never mention being coach / manager.

 

'Doesn’t need the Mail to say that'. No, the Mail told you that.

I haven't brought politics into this. I'm not claiming that it tells lies about football to further the fortunes of Boris. They do so because it sells and because they have an agenda of bringing people down to size by muck-raking. Footballers are high on their list of people who it feels need knocking off their pedestals.

You don't really know there is a 'toxic atmosphere'. All indicators are that most footballers and staff who come into contact with WFC do very well from it and get lots of time off, either by having contracts paid off or spending ages in the treatment room.

All we know is that for 18 months or more we haven't been very good. But whether we are (like we were in the previous 18 months) or we are not the Mail will still run this same story and you will still be looking for it.

I certainly wouldn't be nodding in agreement. It's gossip and if you turned up at London Colney most weeks it's very unlikely to seem 'toxic'.

 

Then don't.

 

A sad indictment of how we've played really.

 

You’re probably in a minority of yourself and Manat if you think there isn’t a player power problem at Watford and a culture of unprofessionalism. But feel free to pretend it must be rubbish because the Daily Mail printed something. Meanwhile you have the captain spouting off on talksport while you have your fingers in you ears.

 

I heard he went down on her to get her to do it. Longest 45 minutes of his life.

 

You can't honestly think that him going on national radio like he did this morning was ok

 

I actually thought it was a decent article (unusual considering the source), it's just a shame it had to play to it's audience by referencing the number of nationalities in the squad. If anything the British players are as much as part of the problem as the foreign ones.

 

Given what has happened in the last 2 days, I disagree that Im 'ranting'. You dont seem to b able to interact with people online without making negative personal comments to people u have never met. Ive been saying all season allowing Deeney back into the dressing room would toxify it and I predicted Deeney would get Ivic sacked. U made several personal insults but it turned out I was right.

 

Nope. Because he literally said he wasn’t qualified in the few seconds before - his ‘why would I take a job where I’d be sacked in 5 months’ line was a standalone line, said to get a reaction. Watch the video, it’s clear as day.

Was a totally idiotic thing to say, yet he knew exactly what he was doing when he said it. Any other club and he’s disciplined for it.

 

But you’re disputing that they sometimes tell accurate stories?

Again, the person who wrote the article has clearly got decent sources and has been right a number of times when breaking news about our club. That’s indisputable because it’s literally happened.

Yes it’s a shame that he works for who he does - but that doesn’t change the above.

 

Your lack of self awareness is beyond belief.

You’ve made many unsubstantiated claims about Deeney and you’ve never met him. Some pretty libellous to be honest. The majority of your posts have contained such behaviour. But you have a pop at me for the same reasons?! Pot kettle black pal.

You haven’t been ‘proven’ right. Where is it ‘proven’ Deeney got Ivic sacked? Ivic got himself sacked with his tactics and demeanour...that’s widely reported.

And simply again, I asked what you would have done...your first reply was sensible enough and I agree with it. Then I asked you to elaborate on whether you would have made those changes with Ivic still in charge or whether you would have still sacked him...you replied with yet another rant about Deeney and didn’t answer the simple question. I tried to engage you in simple debate and you couldn’t deal with it and just resorted to type.

For reference: I agree with you on Deeney’s deficiencies as a footballer, captain and media personality. I can’t stand him.

But you always make assumptions about things you don’t know about him beyond those areas above.

And I have never made ‘several’ personal insults about you. Feel free to report the posts where you feel like I have in that regard.

 

Well at least you are in the anti-Deeney camp. I dont know why u r so interested in my views on Ivic. My view is that his position became untenable. Ivic's sacking is a symptom of the huge problems we now have at the club. I dont believe he is responsible for any of them. The players decided not to work hard enough for him just as they have done under previous managers. Who is the 'leader' of these players who cant be arsed to fight for the club and down tools when things are not to their liking?? well if it isnt Mr Troy Deeney......

 

Honestly, even from him that 'sacked in 5 months' line is just the rankest unprofessionalism, and the biggest pisstaking two fingers up possible. He is a pure di ckhead, with very little mitigation. No regard whatsoever for the club; solely his own 'rep' and position in the media. The fact that we're somewhat shocked by it when it's something Deeney did to draw attention to himself is a measure of just how repulsive it is.

 

Yep, it was classless. The thing is he must know as an employee of the club it would be the wrong thing to say, yet he couldn’t resist it as he knew it would get a cheap laugh at the time. It’s a bit like making a nasty joke at the expense of a close friend or your other half in front of other people, shows a lack of character.

 

There may have been issues with Ivic on and off the pitch but the squad seemed much more full of energy and positivity at the start of the season before the bad apples who couldn't cement transfers out of the club returned in dribs and drabs

I'm not a fan of Deeney and feel it is very poor judgement from him to be washing Watford's dirty linen in public

Even more surprised that Duxbury knowing Troy was going to appear on Talk Sport this morning did not have words with him urging a bit of tact and diplomacy

Some things should be kept inhouse.

Deeney may have legend status with some but I personally think we won't move forward on the pitch until after he's gone

 

Look, I consider myself above it all. I really don’t care about the players’ attitudes. They are ridiculously overpaid and idolised. Quite hard to imagine they don’t have attitude problems.

Even the best of them is likely to be self-absorbed in the way many athletes are. It comes of having people ask you what it all means to you it’s been amazing, incredible most days.

But worse than most other clubs? Hmmn. I think there is an understandable tendency to not like losing and retrofit the reasons. I really doubt that players like Cathcart, Wilmot, Femenia, Sema, Ngakia, Foster, Chalobah, Masina, Pedro, Sarr, Cleverley, Kabasele, Troost-Ekong, I could go on, have any particular problems beyond what’s norm for the type.

Bar Deeney (who always applies himself to a match for better or worse) and Gray who is it you think is the problem?

 

A few bad apples can very easily alter the mindset and performances of the players you’ve listed.

I’ve worked for enough different companies to know the impact a positive focus on culture can have, compared to businesses who don’t think about the impact certain types of personalities might have on other employees.

 

Sure. But this debate is about the suggestion we have more than is usual, that the attitude is generalised.

I don’t buy it. They must have worked pretty hard to get good enough to beat Pool and shrug aside Bournemouth. But the squad wasn’t deep enough for the last effort. It couldn’t do it without Deulofeu, Capoue and with Captain one leg.