Vladimir Ivic - Sacked

How often have they got it right? Twice, three times maximum?

There's no real surprise at all in it anymore. The only surprise left is how many people continue to support the way it's done.

 

So you don't believe that there is a huge problem with player power? You don't believe our players just dump coaches when they feel it is an easy escape route?

I know it's assumption to say we have a deep seated toxicity amongst our players, but it's not a huge one. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence even if you completley disregard the Mail.

 

I would add Wilmot and Cleverley to your list, whatever you think of their level of talent.

 

Only to the extent that all players have power at all clubs now.

I’ve heard this player power thing now over many seasons and it persists even when the personnel have mostly changed. I’ve seen lots of occasions where we appear to try hard and still fail.

I think it’s simply easier to conclude that the players and the coaches have not been good enough and the responsibility for that lays mostly with the board.

But the newspapers are complete parasites and print whether it’s true or not. They don’t have the club’s interest at heart and should be ignored.

 

Agreed. I so want to like Cleverley. He's 100% got the attitude we need. He's just finished as a footballer.

 

They'd get a move in Jan or July.

We'd have a miserable mid table season.

 

Agreed. At the risk of being boring because I’ve said it so many times, the club has lacked decent strikers for years now and I think it’s the primary reason for our relegation and relative failure this season.

 

Yes, fair point.

Wilmot seems like a nice guy - could be a future captain after Troy finally disappears up his own rectum.

 

Whether you think we scrape the dregs of the barrel now for managers or not, this mornings TalkSport fiasco is a huge nail in the coffin for ever getting a decent one again under these owners.

Troy saying he wouldn't want a job where he'd be sacked after 5 months...
Comment after comment throwing your just sacked manager under the bus publicly...
The above coming after the club have publicly backed Troy over the manager...

Whatever you think of Ivic, he hasn't deserved this orchestrated attempt to attack him very openly. It actually disgusts me that its coming from our club.

No manager worth his salt with any ounce of integrity would risk this job in the future while Troy and Gino remain. They've seen to that. It's like they know the only way they can solidify their positions in the club is to make sure that any future alternatives are totally put off now.

 

I'm still against nthr Ivic sacking. We need to throw a season away in order to make a statement to the players that they can't just down tools and they need to work for the manager.

 

This whole thing is absolutely sickening.

Deeney literally slagging off the stupid morons who have let him ride roughshod over this club for so long.

He's not biting the hand that feeds him, its more like he's holding out his fist and Gino is gleefully launching his face at it.

 

FTFY

 

We aren't in a position to do that financially. And we can't sell all the players in one fell swoop in the summer. It's a noble idea that can't exist in reality.

We'd almost certainly end up where Sunderland are - with less resources and smaller fanbase.

 

The fact that players seem to have been aggrieved by Ivic's mobile ban says it all. Get the manager sacked, get your mobile back. Their phones are more important to them than the club.

 

Our team minus the overpaid senior pros who got us relegated ( but with Hughes):
Dahlburg
Ngakia
Ekong
Wilmot
Masina
Hughes
Garner
Sema
JP
Perica
Sarr

No way that team gets relegated with any journeyman championship manager

 

Swap Perica for Suarez and Estupinan for Masina and that's the sort of team I would have heavily got behind from day 1 this season.

 

Relegated this season? No. I wasn't saying that.

But the post I was replying to said we need a throwaway season - what happens at the end of that throwaway season? We are in financial turmoil and that cannot be denied. And in that event, you can remove well over half that team you've listed above for next season - then. the prospect of becoming Sunderland with a few millstone players with huge wages on the books is very real.

Thinking we can feasibly tank this season as some sort of lesson to the players and only lose the preferable players (Gray, Deeney, Capoue etc) as a result is utter pie-in-the-sky stuff.

 

Duxbury's comment in the Deeney statement yesterday was telling in hindsight...

'There will be no hangover from this'

Because a hangover would allow an inquest, and they cannot allow that. Easier to just keep pressing on making the same mistakes without coming up for air.

 

I don't think anyone could really envision just how unprofessional he was. Even at 80% he could be Championship pots

 

Genuinely think any of our players can be motivated if they are enjoying who they play for and what they are asked to do. Capoue is no different.

We haven't had that though.

Of course, the easiest way to foster such an environment is to hire a manager that players recognise and immediately respect. Ivic didn't have that and neither does this new guy. We need to hope he's damn fun to play for, that's for sure.

 

I think half of the motivation for a player like Capoue is the opposition. Easier for him to be motivated playing against some of the best midfielders in the world, if not out of pride over anything else.

That element is completely eliminated playing in the championship, irrespective of the manager. Capoue now has absolutely nothing to play for in his career. I personally haven’t predicted many things right but did say all along keeping Capoue would be a disaster all round.

 

Adam L described Deeney and Ivic as going 'head to head' (metaphorically not physically), the manager was gone almost immediately. He also said players may have had issues in training with monotony and excessive drilling. Who the fook are these snowflakes and why are we still paying their wages??

 

There is a possibility that the players felt that the way Ivic conducted training and set them up in matches would not have achieved the main goal from the start of the season. If that's the case then I feel they are quite right to suggest things are not right. If we got promoted these players will be plying their trade in the most watched league in the world and also getting paid handsomely. If I was a player I would desperately want to get promoted and would certainly not be happy if I felt the coaches decisions was jeopardizing this.
I hate football with no fans but having watched this season via Hive I am delighted he's gone and couldn't care less how much experience the new guy has, we cannot play less attractive football with a bag of Maltesers in charge. No offense @Malteser2

 

Ah yes. The thought that anyone not happy with their work environment must automatically be a ‘snowflake’.

Like it or not, a coach and players need to be aligned in what they want to achieve and how they will go about it. If the squad knew it wouldn’t be achieved by following this guys methods, what would you have done? Just say ‘get on with it’ and watch them fail? And then ignore their ‘I told you so’s’?

Yes this squad has a soft underbelly and big ego’s. The owner knew this and appointed entirely the wrong manager, simple as that.

I hate to say it because I hate these egotistical players we have as much as anyone - but in this instance, given the financial implications of not getting promotion, they’ve done the club a favour by getting rid of this manager rather than letting it play out.

Not saying I agree with it - but at least in a strange way it shows they want to be better, be more attacking and achieve promotion.

 

Your analogy doesn't work - having your hand bitten by Troy would be waaay more painful that trying to hurt yourself against his static fist.

 

That happened with many of our players after reaching the FA Cup final - it was always going to be the pinnacle of that team's performance and many of its players' careers.

Bournemouth and Norwich got relegated with generally much younger squads, containing more players still with the desire to achieve in the PL and beyond.

 

I disagree, this is a pattern that has haunted the club for years. The players try for a bit under the new manager, then down tools knowing he'll be sacked. The players know they are more powerful than the manager and this is a huge problem for the club. The sacking of Ivic merely highlights a much deeper problem at the club. Once the players see hard work and 100% commitment as optional a football club is fuct. Right now we r fuct. The problem is institutional.

 

So what would you do? Names something that saves this season knowing we can’t really afford to stay in this division beyond this year?

 

I take your point, but do these players look like they r desperate to get promoted. It seems they will only work hard on their terms and even then only briefly.

 

Probably as soon as he announced to the squad that the default setting was to bore our way to as many turgid 1-0 wins as possible.

 

It is a mantra in any professional sport that "monotony in training" is a certain route to poor performance.

 

I'd separate Deeney and Capoue from the squad and send them to train elsewhere, maybe Mogadishu. I'd tell Foster to stop making stupid videos and concentrate on being a footballer. I'd play 433 whenever Sarr is on the pitch and give him a free role and I'd give Hughes the armband if we can get him back in the team. I'd pick 6 leaders who are the players with the best attitudes and focus on leadership structures and psychology with those 6 heavily involved.

 

With Ivic in charge?