Vladimir Ivic - Sacked

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Malteser2, Dec 19, 2020.

  1. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

  2. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    wfcmoog likes this.
  3. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Smudger likes this.
  4. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

  5. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Gino must have a huge insecurity issue because he feel he has to micromanage everything. No manager can succeed in this model or feel confident that their decisions on and off the pitch, in training will be respected. Floppo has farked off thank goodness to an arms length only it seems to be replaced by Giaretta doing exactly the same thing. Gino needs to understand times have changed, the game has changed but he is stuck with his model.
     
  6. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    He's a nice guy Vladimir. I am sure he will learn from this particular experience and be the better for it. He certainly won't be coming near such terrible leadership again as exhibited by Gino and Scott. However his football was becoming turgid and ineffective given the squad at his disposal. All the best to him and his staff.
     
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  7. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    So of your list we have Mr GoPro Foster, Masina who has dusts up with Pearson, Sarr who has no interest in being here. You’ve neatly not mentioned Capoue or Success We’ve got players who are just happy to rest on their retirement contracts (Cleverley and Cathcart). Add in Deeney and Gray. Hughes who has one availability excuse after another.

    That’s 10 players who are either non contributors/wastes of space/trouble makers/chilling out on long dumb Pozzo contracts straight up. It’s an absolute swamp.

    Oh and forgot about Suarez and Estupinan stamping their booties.

    Oh also forgot we had 17 players “unavailable” for opening game of season.

    Yep we sure are on a par with the rest of the clubs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
  8. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Not sure why you thought i didn't think there was a player power problem at the club. I wrote posts indicating that very thing after yet another of these 'player unrest' manager sackings.
     
  9. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    I agree with both of you.

    If that's allowed.
     
    Moosegasm likes this.
  10. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    This is absurd and shows the level of fantasy you have begun to wallow in.

    Foster has been mostly in great form and is widely lauded for his professionalism, Sarr cried when we were relegated and shows no sign of giving up, merely frustration in a negatively coached team. Why wouldn't he? As for Masina, you know nothing of what happened, if it happened at all or what his part in it was. Otherwise he seems a good pro, if limited for the premier league. Cathcart has been a reliable player over six (?) seasons. You really are setting the bar low if you think he is a trouble maker, ditto Cleverley, though he is clearly on the wane and Hughes has been a great player for us. This season he has been coming back from an injury. **** happens. Capoue has an attitude, but often it's a good one. He wouldn't run as far or get POTS if he didn't. Ex-managers have clearly been interested in him. He's been an outstanding player for us.

    Suarez and Estupinan had precisely no influence on how the team behaves. They are kids who were here for six weeks. The senior pros would barely note them. Otherwise most of the young players, Dele-Bashiru, Phillips, Bachman seem perfectly grounded.

    Of the others, Success is far from a success, but is a peripheral figure. No one feels under threat from him for their place other than the next most injured. Gray I grant you, Deeney a mixed bag who is at Watford beyond his time. He hardly endears himself to me writing for the Sun, but if he was so malign the Pozzos would have cashed his chips in.

    So I'll give you two, composed of one and two halves. How many squeaky wheels where you work in the closest 40 staff to you?
     
    BigRossLittleRoss likes this.
  11. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    You are delusional. We had 17 players “unavailable” for our first match. Seventeen!! If you can’t see that we are rotten to the core from that then I don’t know what to say. To add to it players down tools season after season.

    We have plenty of apologists like you so it’s no surprise Pozzo treats the fans with utter contempt. I would as well.
     
    wfcmoog, iamofwfc and NathWFC like this.
  12. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Yeah but you were just trying to divert attention away from the many times you assured us Ivic was never going to be sacked.
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  13. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    You conflate those individuals who the club has agreed would probably play elsewhere (in the club’s interest as it needed to cut costs or raise funds) with players simply saying ‘**** you’ of which I suspect there were very few. It was a very odd pre-season given how long the transfer window stretched beyond the start. Other players were injured. Fortunately we always have about 60 players on our books.

    It was messy, it was unclear. The status of Suarez and Estupinan in particular. But none of it inexplicable unless by rebellion. The player who most clearly wasn’t having any of Championship life was Deulofeu, but he may have been entitled to under his contract.

    I’m sorry to deflate this way of thinking that has become such an enjoyable hobby for you, but little of your speculation would stand up in court. It’s how this business is.

    And it’s not being an apologist. The reason we went down and the club then found itself in such a weak position in regards to players like Suarez was the poor performance of the Directors over several years. But that doesn’t equal the wholesale player revolt bs churned out by shyte papers you uncritically consume. Ivic wasn’t working out. No conspiracy required.
     
  14. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I can assure you I do.
     
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  15. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Been reading too much Daily Mail m8. Our club is a temple of professionalism.
     
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  16. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I’m not saying that. You just make yourself look bizarre when you claim it’s the fountain of all evil.

    A rotten game if you like. But Craig Cathcart some kind of stand out troublemaker? Give your head a wobble.
     
  17. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    There’s not much point replying as you do what you do in the politics section and don’t bother reading what people post.
     
  18. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    My identity finally revealed
     
  19. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Rich from you as you’ve completely ignored my points. As usual, there is no actual debating any merits of a subject with you. You’ve hysterically listed perfectly decent pros as being a problem and ignored my question about the numbers of people you may expect to be a PIA in any selection of staff. You seize upon any tittle tattle, seemingly desperate for it to be true. That’s simply entertainment, not evidence.

    For the avoidance of doubt, if you want to put forward the proposition that football per se is rotten, then I’m with you. Ridiculous wages, poor sportsmanship, cheesy corporatism etc But simply because we, a moderate sized club, have faltered it doesn’t mean we must have an abnormally large group of tosspots. This is what it looks like when WFC fails and fail we have.
     
  20. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Amazing that the Daily Mail completely invented (no sources, just make things up, it's the evil Mail after all) the idea that mobiles had been banned from the training ground and then Deeney said the exact same thing live on radio. Sure did get lucky with that finger in the air guess!
     
  21. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I knew you were 2 of them...
     
  22. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Again I advise you to read what I actually posted.
     
  23. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    They may have got lucky but stop consuming this tittle tattle!
     
  24. 3000

    3000 Reservist

    If Sir Alex Ferguson asked to speak to one of his players, do you think that player would have turned around and said “yeah give us 30 minutes Al I’ll come and see you when I’m done”.

    Deeney has no respect for anyone other than himself and he has officially lost all my respect, especially after going on talk sport and mouthing off about the club the NEXT DAY. I can’t wait until he leaves.
     
  25. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Who cares if they get it right once in a while? Why does that mean we have a squad full of rotten pros who got the coach sacked, a coach most wanted to get rid of anyway.

    It’s become a hobby for you guys now, all this intrigue you have built a world view from but most of it is bolloks. You could create the same feeling out of stories about any team and wow, hey presto, that’s exactly what the bottom feeding sports ‘journalists’ do. As GT said, ‘tittle tattle’.

    I’m sorry if you want to harbour the illusion that the Mail has some honest journalists labouring diligently under the paper’s reputation, but they don’t.
     
  26. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I'm sure he's devastated.
     
  27. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Again I advise you to come up with a theory about the players that makes sense. Most are good pros and there is little evidence otherwise. It would just be nice if they were better.
     
  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    But Moose, you're tying yourself up in knots about a larger argument and using that to attempt to disprove one smaller point. This guy has written an article that has confirmed accuracies within it. And it's not the first time this particular journalist has done that. Thats it. I agree with you on a wider scale that journalism is largely in the gutter in the current world, some more than others. This guy may well be another dishonest hack who would sell his own grandma for a story - but that's not what is being debated - yet its what you're using to disprove a story he's accurately written (in places).
     
  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Potentially yes if he was getting treatment or something but it would have been agreed to meet up after wards even if said manager was having his lunch rather than as Troy seemed to do - just walk off without saying anything.

    I suspect that is what annoyed Ivic - just thought Deeney wasn't really trying to find him and have that chat.
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  30. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Exactly my thoughts 4ever!

    It was up to Troy to report to Vlad as instructed, not for Vlad to go looking for him! Therefore I would imagine that from Vlads point of view he thought that TD had deliberately ignored his orders, hence the reasoning for disciplining him.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  31. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Ok, I’ve digressed a bit from my original point which was this.

    @Steve Leo Beleck had claimed that the journalist's story provided weak reasons for a players revolt. Others then wrote of the 'toxic culture' in the club.

    But this is one hell of a leap. As I demonstrated with the Mazzari article, the same story is always recycled, it's always a player's revolt. And it is a story, it's not evidence. Mobile phones? Great detail. That's never come up before. Overnight stays? Never.

    I think it's a leap then to conclude that our players are worse pros than other teams (because that's what people are doing) and it seems particularly daft to claim this when a coach most of us thought should go leaves. We have not been good enough from the board downwards for a while at the same time we are being out competed by rising clubs, Wolves, Leeds, Villa, Brighton etc. This is what it looks like.

    I would say you have the Gino loyalists on the run. Few are defending the clubs decisions. But you don't have to scorch the Earth on the way and not with the help of professional liars in the media, who after their decades of attacks on GT should be your enemies. 'There are some good journalists at the Mail' - come on Steve, if there are then their recruitment is as ****ed up as ours because that is not their intention.
     
  32. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Some observations,

    Communication goes two ways.
    You generally don't discipline on a first offence - you set out the behaviour that you want and what will happen if you don't get it.
    Naming him as a sub. but not using him in an obvious situation was dealing with the matter both publicly and ineptly.

    If i had to guess I would say that Vlad had simply had enough of the club by then, knew he was on the way out and was quick to conclude disrespect from Deeney.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  33. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    You have to bear in mind we only have Troy and the clubs side of the story.

    With just their side of the story something doesn’t quite add up.

    Troy was being rested, he wasn’t in the starting 11 before this supposed failed meeting.

    So Ivic asked to see Troy, at worst what we’ve been told is Troy made him wait while he had a massage, then apparently they didn’t speak again.

    So why was Troy sitting in the stands with a face like thunder clearly bitching to his team mates in front. At one point the camera cut to him and he was giving a death stare to Ivic, many people commented on it in the shoutbox.

    But Ivic said said afterwards he was being rested and also there were some disciplinary issues.

    He also said no player is bigger than the club or the team. Why did he say that? Just because Troy made him wait? Why did Troy sit in the stands sulking when he hadn’t apparently even spoken to Ivic because the whole point to their story is that they simply missed each other?

    I think it’s pretty clear there must have been more to it than they very obvious spin the club put on whatever actually happened.

    Troy has already been dropped, he wasn’t a dropped again for not meeting Ivic.

    The exact same thing happened after Pearson left, funny back then we got the version of supposed events from Troy as well, nothing happened he said, sure.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  34. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    This the sort of thing that happens when a team is performing poorly and the manager isn't popular.

    Salah and Mane have both shown dissent to Klopp coming off the pitch being subbed but nothing is really said as they are a united winning team with a manager who is very popular and without doubt in control of what is going on.

    On 5live they pretty much supported Deeney by saying many captains go and talk to the board about managers etc - maybe that is why we see so many sacking and examples of player power.

    And ofcourse the media still go on about how Deeney is our most important and best player which isn't true but maybe a reflection on the rest of our strikers.
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    What we also don’t know is why Ivic wanted to speak with Deeney? He’d been told he’d been rested because of the amount of games he’d played. Troy said he wasn’t happy but accepted it. So what was the reasoning for Ivic needing to have a further private word with him?

    I’m also dubious that given Ivic hadn’t really rotated some other players, why would he suddenly do so with Deeney after he’d scored a few goals (pens or not)?

    I still think something else has happened, be it minor or major. If I had to guess, I think the players have been frustrated with his methods and tactics for a while and Troy has gone to the owner about it. And Ivic has found out and punished Deeney for it to display his authority - but dressed it up as something else. And then the ‘chat’ was to make that clear. And Deeney missed it obviously and it’s exacerbated the issue even more.

    I accept that’s just a complete guess though!
     
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