Sannino's reign as Watford's head coach in serious doubt [Wobby]

Great post from Angella.

I love his passion when we score . Always the first to run the pitch and celebrate .

 

Glory hog

 

If you weren't in the build up play Angella then it's time to shut up and learn your place.

 

I think it's more worrying that Gomes insists on celebrating on his own. It's about time he jogged down the pitch to join in

 

Angella is da man! Even if it is kinda a girls name.

 

Picture conveniently crops out Vydra flicking his signature V's at Sannino.

 

Anyone else think Frank Smith has shot himself in the foot here?

Think he tried to play billy big *******s after the club kept him in the dark Re. Deeney and the player himself called him out on twitter

 

Nope though I think some people are keen to believe all is sweetness and light at the club so will try to discredit the messenger.

Even the Deeney thing you refer to is something of nothing as Smith himself responded straight away by pointing out he had wanted to speak to him for some time but the club kept refusing permission. I'm sure the source for the transfer bid stories he's written about Deeney is 'the club' in one guise or another. Given he says it's the same source who has given him the heads up on most transfer moves this summer and they've turned out to be right I think it's a fair bet it's the club as no single agent/secretary/tea lady would be privy to everything. In which case the fact he has published information they've provided him with for just that purpose is hardly likely to represent him shooting himself in the foot. Quite the contrary in fact.

Think of it like this; If the club were really unhappy with his conduct of late why haven't they barred him? It would be easily done and if his stories were fabricated justified as well. They could insist the WO send an alternate reporter and that would be that. Now I'm not suggesting the club will be ecstatic about it or are the source of the dressing room unrest stories - that's quite clearly the players themselves - but there's clearly a productive relationship there between club and local paper which they don't want stopped.

 

I totally agree with you. The whole thing's been blown out of proportion, plus, if Beppe was going to go, I think he would have gone by now.

 

Obviously a problem between Beppe and some of the players but while the results keep coming I think it would be unfair/mad to sack him. IMO whatever happened in the background Dyer was vey wrong to show his anger in such a public manner and it was inevitable he would be excluded from Saturdays squad. If he had been in the team the message would have been "kick off in public and you will get your own way" resulting in anarchy.
I have always said that we needed continuity after Zola and that we should give the gaffa 10 games at least..........so far so good. Think the football at home has been good overall and am enjoying going which I wasn't in Zolas 2nd season.

 

Funny though how Jon Marks was reporting along the same lines.
Two reliable persons reporting the same makes me think there is something going on!

 

Ever thought they might have wanted the Deeney speculation to continue? When it come's to negotiations media blackouts are an essential tool otherwise chinks in the armour get found.

 

Malky, is that you?

 

Or they have the same source(s) and someone is **** stirring.

Fact of the matter is we are all in the dark on this.

 

All this talk about shooting the messenger is a load of crap. How do we know that Smith is not using this forum as his source, wouldn't be the first time.
The whole thing sounds very exaggerated over what seems a couple of individuals that are not used to playing in a very large but equally talented squad.
Dont forget Watford need the WO as much as the other way. They will need some print time soon for the new stadia.

 

Now everything seems to have calmed down a bit, I'd add the following points.

Obviously there were some issues off the field but to me it seemed a huge leap for the WO to go from saying 'some players are unhappy with the Head Coach' to then saying 'his future is in serious doubt'. Unless they'd received some info from the owners, where is the natural link between those two statements?

Unless the Head Coach has done anything to break the terms of his contract, such as hitting a player or something (as opposed to just the players not liking his training methods), the club were absolutely right to back him, and he was absolutely right to drop anybody from the starting eleven as punishment if he felt that was the way to deal with it.

Results are generally the be-all-and-end-all...few clubs with off-field problems would sack a manager if they lie 2nd in the table. When Sunderland had their player revolt and Di Canio left, they were bottom 3. This season is going well..I believe the win at Rotherham may turn out to be one of our most important results in months, winning away and with rotation as we did. Sack Sannino if we lose 5 in a row for sure, but with the off-field troubles just sort them out. He should be experienced enough to consiliate over his manner and methods if need be, if they are causing unrest. The club should always back the coach, but maybe they can also ask, in a grown-up way, why the coach seems to be putting players backs up.

I realise with a big squad you can't keep everybody happy all the time, but I still feel it's a real shame what has been happening recently. Whichever 'side' you are on, try to stand back a minute and see the bigger picture, which is that for the 2nd time in 5 league matches now our side/squad has been picked, not only on ability, but including off-field matters. Of course we won on Saturday so perhaps nobody gives a stuff and it's easy to say 'oh it's only one or two players and they've been dropped' etc. Of course when you win a match you can say 'oh we don't need Dyer or McGugan or Ranegie' etc. But I still feel it's sad that these issues have arisen and I worry that if/when we do hit a losing run, the wheels may come off IF they are not totally resolved. They obviously weren't after the Huddersfield game and they came back again last week. We won so we got away with it. But we do not want or need ANYTHING to distract us from the hard task of winning this very tough league. I just feel very sad about the whole thing, because I remember how pleased I was when we signed Dyer, and now look at what it has come to. I want to return to a situation where the best 11 players get selected to play, not just those who've been the 'best behaved'.

I know anything I post will come across as anti_Beppe, or get misread as such, but those are my thoughts at the end of a dramatic week, on and off the pitch.

 

No player has a god given right to play, the manager picks the team and lives or dies by his decision (the result) players are still paid their wages not to play, Managers are sacked if they don't Manage.

 

Nobody's disagreeing with that.

But don't you think it's sad that for the 2nd time in a few months it's come to that? Far better not to have these situations in the first place!

I hope our win on Saturday won't sweep all this under the carpet because if we hit a rocky patch, it will be sure to surface again.

 

Really? I'd love to see your proof for that.

How does that theory explain Jon Marks agreeing with him? They work for different organisations but no doubt have the same sources.

 

I was told before the Leeds game that Sannino was already aware he was being replaced, and this was his last game. RDM would take over, in a temporary role only. This would happen before the game on Tuesday. Just passing on what I was told, from a source which has connections with the club.

 

YellowKicks has gone quiet. I wonder if his source was wrong.

 

The good results we have had hide the fact that the team aren't actually playing as well as they should be. Certainly stronger in defence than last season, but far less fluid (and natural) going forward. Unfortunately, unless this improves, I feel we are like a tower built from a pack of cards, just ready to collapse.

I know that I'll get flack over this, being in 2nd place, etc, but if we really think that our performances are top of table quality, then we are kidding ourselves. Fortunately, there is massive room for improvement.

There was a thread a few weeks ago questioning the size of the squad and I said then, and I still maintain, keeping players happy will be a massive issue/problem this season. It would be a massive problem for the best of man managers, let alone someone that doesn't seem to have got his act together in that department, perhaps lacks some credibility himself, and with a squad that has little in common with each other and little real affinity to Watford. I honestly think that Beppe has been given a huge task, maybe even an unfair task.

It is easy for us to sit back and say that the players should be more professional and just accept it, but I try and put myself in their shoes. The thought of taking part in all the discussions in the build up to the game, the training, the set play rehearsals, and then not actually taking part in the game, must be horrendously frustrating, particularly if you played very well in the last game. Yes, they must accept it, but it isn't easy to live and work under such constant tension.

I hope we sort it out, as I am really starting to detest this league now.

 

I wonder how Udinese manage such a large squad? and Chelsea, Man Utd, Citeh, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs .... need I go on?

 

I'd say this.

My view is this was bigger than just a couple of players objecting to not playing; Sannino seems like quite an abrasive person to be around and its easy to see him rubbing people (players, staff, management) up the wrong way; I trust the person who hinted at some of the arguments behind the scenes... but... we're 2nd, we're winning, we're on target, and I don't see anything happening as long as we stay on target.

 

If our starting pay was GBP 35,000 a week rising to whatever ridiculous amounts top clubs play their top players these days I'm sure managing large squads is a little easier.

 

It may be because there is not a lot else to achieve. They are at the top, earning between £100k and £250k a week. Do you think Lampard would have been so content if he was earning £8k a week?

Players come to Watford, not to be a regular in a tinpot Championship team, they are here increase their own standing, increase their own value, to get to the premiership, they still have plenty to prove and plenty to achieve. Also, their managers are also extremely respected figures already, they don't lack credibility like Beppe does.

 

3 seasons unbeaten seems pretty credible to me

 

I don't disagree with ZZ at all about the big squad (oh the irony eh of us moaning we have too many good players!) but I think we've been lucky so far in having the League Cup and also a midweek Championship match. So far the only players who've not yet kicked a ball in anger who we would have expected to are Battocchio and Ranegie I think? Murray came on as sub v Stevenage at least, while Cathcart's been injured.

None of us know what 'gurantees' of playing time were made to our various new signings when they joined us this summer, but having 'given up' a chance of playing in the PL, I can't imagine Dyer would have been best pleased to not to have started a league match so far, although of course most of us agree his method of protest was out of order.

I think the last week has highlighted greatly the difference in attitude between different personalities in the squad. Dyer doesn't start at Rotherham and then carries out his protest. Fessi doesn't start at Rotherham, but when gets his chance next match he lets his skills do the talking. Same problem, totally different solution.

I think it's inevitable we will see some departures in the run up to Deadline Day. Sadly I think Ranegie will leave. Maybe CB or Murray out on loan. We're yet to see what will happen with the alleged 'troublesome players' too.

Who'd be Beppe eh? Do you recall Vydra next league match, or keep the Fessi-Deeney partnership? If it's the latter, are you risking Vydra becoming the next player to feel unsettled?

Still, at least nobody's mentioned Deeney being sold this week! Quite a distraction from that!

 

Based on absolutely nothing, I still think he'll be sacked.

 

I don't really see it that way.

If anything it would be as difficult, though different, to manage players willing to sit on the bench to pick up their vast wages, not bothered whether they play or not.

To have to motivate rich young men who've gotten used to the idea of not being picked regularly would be just as difficult as fellas earning 'only' several thousand a week who are desparate to play to either succeed with the team they're at or prove to other clubs they're worthy of a place somewhere else.

Man managing a large(ish) group of people from different backgrounds and of different ages isn't easy, it requires give and take from both sides.

Players must realise it's doubtful they'll play week in week out but when they are picked to make the most of that opportunity.
Managers must realise you cannot treat people within a group exactly the same. Individuals within that group will react differently to the same situation so work out what makes them tick and what lessens their performance.

Not easy but these are adults who have chosen this profession.
Be adult about it and realise it's not all about the individual and that goes for manager and players.

 

Exactly this! If there are problems and you're losing, it's an excuse to sack the manager. If there are problems and you're 2nd, you work hard to try and find a solution. But find a solution you must because otherwise it will keep happening, especially when you start losing, as you're bound to occasionally in this tough league. It happened last May and it's happened again, and because Dyer wasn't here in May one can't just say it must be the same old same old players! There should be enough give and take on both sides to stamp this out. If Sannino needs to change his manner accordingly, then so be it. He is wise enough to be flexible because he must realise he has a great chance of being an unexpected success this season..he simply can't say 'oh this was how I always managed in Italy so I'm not open to change'.

 

I was politely asked not to post any more on the situation, I still stand by everything I've already posted previously, which doesn't include me stating at any point I know he'll be sacked, I just think he will.

 

In the interview Dyer gave in the Watford Observer a couple of weeks back he stated he left Leicester because they treated him differently to other 30+ year olds.

Their policy was to only offer a player over 30 a 1 year deal and he was happy with that but when other 30+ year olds started to be offered longer deals he questioned what was going on. It was made clear he wouldn't get a longer deal so chose to leave on principle.

He got a 3 year deal out of WFC which gives him security and a decent wage.
If he was an international player with experience at the highest level then yes, guarantee him a start at the beginning of the season and it's up to him to prove his worth.

I can't see a bloke who's never played higher than the championship being guaranteed a place, especially with such a large squad and the changing of formations so far.

 

Thank Goodness for the private messaging system then lol

(That was a reply to Yellowkicks post)

 

I expect Deeney will not be here so Ranegie's not going anywhere. Dyer can knuckle down with his defensive work, get loaned out or rot in the reserves, it's his call I reckon but any more of the angry stuff will only harm his career.