Who Can We Realistically Get Rid Of This Summer?

Selling Joao Pedro for £10m would be the worst sale since the Pozzo’s took over. He’s the exact type of player we should be playing and keeping to be sustainable in the Prem

 

These are the first team players would I think Watford will look to move on in the summer window.

Carlos Sanchez (released)
Achraf Lazaar (released)
Craig Dawson (already sold to West Ham)
Marc Navarro (to be sold)
Issac Success (out on loan)
Adalberto Penaranda (to be sold)
Stipe Perica (probably back to Udinese or sold)
Jerome Sinclair (released)
Ignacio Pussetto (sold back to Udinese)
Pontus Dahlberg (out on loan....again)
Ben Wilmot (out on loan possibly)

Domingos Quina could be on the list also, as there something not quite right with how/why we let him out on loan in the winter.

 

Agree with your post but didn’t we pay £2m for that waste of space Navarro? Dreadful signing.

 

One of the problems will be the lack of money many clubs will face due to the pandemic. Prices and salaries will not be as high as in the past. Any agent with half a brain will tell their charges that and encourage them to stay on their current contracts.

Having said that there could be bargains available at Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus.

 

Can't dislike Xisco for bringing back the good vibes and helping us get promoted when things weren't looking promising, but his treatment of young players, Pedro aside, is a mark against him, those two, Ngakia and Garner were given so few chances to impress under Xisco. I don't think any of them started a single game in their preferred positions after Wilmot started at CB against Norwich in Xisco's first game?! Not Quina's biggest fan, but even Ivic handled him better, and he played a safety-first style of play with Quina shunted out to the wing...

 

I wouldn’t go anywhere near selling him - but I think the club need to build a squad that’s sufficiently strong in all areas so that Joao Pedro isn’t shifted out to the wing/up front/into centre midfield all the time.

A position needs to be nailed down for him and then let him get to work on being the best he can be in that role.

 

With Quina, his best performances for us came in the PL so we may be tempted to keep him around. But he will need to sign a new deal obviously.

I think we’d have binned him had we not gone up.

 

How many more chances can we afford him though. He has ability but is so inconsistent.

 

As have been his opportunities to demonstrate those abilities.

 

I don't really think he wasted chances in the PL. He actually looked good when used but the coaches preferred Doucoure.

I don't think clubs will be queueing up to give us a decent amount for him anyway.

 

Surely not? I’ve convinced myself over the last few years he was out of contract, and we took a risk-free punt on a bloke based on some strange anomaly thrown up in the scouting data.

Criminal charges needed if we spanked 2m on this one.

 

2m Euros, not Pounds.

So that's alright then.

 

But this can equate to many different scenarios tbf. I like the guy and hope he comes good but time is running out for him.

 

No so much wasted but he neither cemented his place either. He's older now and hopefully he can push on because there's definitely a player there.

 

We definitely need a mobile CF with whom JP will instinctively interchange positions if he plays wide left of a front 3. He has already shown the ability to find space in congested areas near the box, even when being more tightly man-marked at CF than will be the case as a wide player. Just take a look again at how much time and space he found in the box before playing in the ball for Gosling at Naaarch. It was like time had stopped around him. Coming in off the left, I think he could prove very difficult for lower EPL defences to always pick up tightly enough. Although he needs work on his finishing.

 

Its going to be a hard season next season, its an unforgiving league. Some of 'our heroes' of this season like Cleverley, Kiko and Hughes will likely find it tough.
And Masina and Troost Ekong will struggle I think against the next level.
We are going to need some luck from our new signings whoever they are to give us enough quality to keep us up.

 

Joao Pedro had a couple of bad games towards the end of the season. I don't want to hear fatigue as an excuse, get rid. £5m would do it for me.

I'd use any proceeds from the sale to fund a new 5 year deal for Gray and possibly Success.

 

Gray/Deeney. There quite simply has to be a clear-out of at least one of them, if for no reason than to make room for new players. I still have a faint hope that the club will buy out Troy's final year for some amount (half?), spread out over 5 years or so and he retires to become a full time pundit. This leaves Gray, who, as you've noted, is unlikely to be taken on by anyone unless we finance it. I doubt that we're willing to do this unless we have a miracle transfer window where 2-3 quality young strikers come on board. I suspect he'll be here. If Deeney want to have his swansong eyar, then perhaps we might entertain paying to send Gray along.

Success. Agreed. I hope that there's interest from a Championship club that plays on the ground. If he does have to go to La Liga, it should be someplace like Alaves - which are all about clawing to stay alive.

Perica. Agreed

Wilmot. Shame he didn't force his way into the lineup more this season. Needs a loan. Make or break year for him. Loan him to one of the lower half sides where he's got a decent chance of getting a starting role.

Navarro. Agreed.

Kabasele. Agreed. He's got some pace, which we desperately need at CB. What he's not good at (like Cathcart and WTE) is completing a pass - although he's the best of the 3.

Quina. No idea. Let Munoz have another look at him in the summer.

Gosling. Probably a solid squad player, but I do think that we've very old, very slow and have a lot of oft-injured players in central midfield. We desperately need to invest in a class option here, one who can run at teams and pick out a pass. Some players will have to go from the group. Just not sure who/how many.

Sanchez. Gone. Too many numbers there. Unless there's a sell-off of Quina, TDB, etc. As noted above, he's not what we need. 10 years ago, maybe.

Zinkernagel. Squad player, simply because we can invest everywhere.

TDB. Needs games and no one will buy him until they see that he's fully recovered. I suspect he's with us. I just hope that he's fit enough and good enough to get minutes. He *could* be that type of midfielder that we need, although I doubt he's show it straightaway.

Cathcart. Depends on what happens elsewhere. Squad player or sold. If Dawson was good enough, then so is Cathcart.

Lazaar. Gone. We need a young, fast backup there - regardless of whether Ashley Young comes.

My hope is that we invest in at least 5 players in 4 spots. 6 in 5 would be better. Forwards 2 + Cucho (I know he's not a true forward). Attacking mid - 1 - as described above. Left Back - 1 (not counting Young). Right back - 1 (Femenia is oft-injured and not a Premiership class defender - although he is dangerous going forward - N'Gakia is still young and unproven, and he also seems to take a knock frequently).

If we have 1 more, I'd first go with another winger with pace. We have a lot of eggs in the Sarr basket. Our other wingers/outside forwards are either "drift inside" players (Pedro, Cucho) or a little slow to open up Prem teams down the flanks (Zinckernagel, Sema). Failing that, a big, strong, fast 6 who can at least complete a 20 yard ball.

 

We did nt really though, because it was all tied up in the accounting of the sale of Granada, sold by the Pozzos in 2016.

 

I presume we are talking Lira?

 

Funnily enough Marc Overmars is at the ground today. He's started in the middle of a three today. Not done much tbf.
Wind has done nothing either.

 

Am I the only one that is not convinced by JP. I would say he has been pretty average - may be I have missed a few games but I have not seen anything yet to suggest he will cope in Premier League

I am sure I will get abuse for that opinion

 

Why it's your opinion.
I disagree and believe there is one hell of a player there. Remember he's only 19 and still learning his trade.

 

I was talking about Pedro, not Success.

 

Even when he's not been scoring, he's been playing well, he's not had many stinkers this year. Definitely not ready to be a main Premier League striker, but I'm sure he'll be a handful out wide or as a #10, alongside a new striker

 

He's really not, he's been completely anonymous most of this year.

 

I don’t want to get bogged down in debating what Deeney can or can’t offer again, but I think it’s fair to say aside from a couple of forum lunatics, everyone is pretty well aligned on the fact he’s past it and will be net negative to us whenever he sets foot on the pitch next season.

With that in mind Gino absolutely has to look at the situation pragmatically, he’ll be harming us if he stays so anything he can get back by loaning him out (or paying up part of his contract and letting him leave for free) will he a bonus not a loss.

Let’s say we we could get the loaning club to pay £10k of his wages, that needs to viewed as a an extra £10k for someone else, not Gino looking at it as losing £60k. My fear is he’ll see it as the latter, but he simply has to look at the bigger picture here.

I’d apply the same logic to Gray, but as terrible a footballer as he is he can still score goals every now and then, I think we should try and offload him, but he doesn’t necessarily detract from the side like Deeney (he just doesn’t add much) so I wouldn’t be in as much of a hurry to get him out of the door at any cost.

 

I'm not convinced by him yet, but I think his potential is very high. He was only 19 and playing in a very physical league - under 2 different managers. It seemed to me that he wore down physically. Now, it's fair to say "He's 19 - when I was 19 I could run all day!!!". Fair enough, but it's very common for young athletes to take a few years to learn how to eat, how to train, how to rest and how to recover after games in order to maintain their levels. Playing a couple of matches a week wears on anyone. I'm cautiously optimistic that he'll get that side of things sorted out and we'll see another big step forward................ "Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - George S. Patton

 

Look what happened to Richarlison's form the season after we had ploughed him into the ground.

Not sure fatigue explains everything with JP in recent months, but can't help but feel it is a factor.

It would frankly but utter lunacy to sell him for the low fees some on here are suggesting.

 

News just in. We've accepted an offer of 100k from L*t*n.

 

I think it might be time for Hogg to move on.

The loans haven't really worked out for his development, and when was the last time he made a first team appearance for us?

Now's the moment to cash in.

 

For the record, my first post said bids from "£10mil+" (i.e. over 10) should be "consider[ed]" on the condition that whatever fee it is would be needed in order to sign someone who could make a more immediate impact as a left-forward. I also just a few minutes afterwards acknowledged that low-10s would likely be too little.

To illustrate the point I was getting at, if the only way we could sign say Danjuma for £15mil would be to sell JP for £15mil, then we should consider it. If an even better option would be available for a LW but cost a bit more, and we could also get that bit more for JP, then that should of course be considered instead.

I think maximising our chances of getting re-established in the PL is more important than developing JP, who I don't think is as much of a certainty to be a top player as others on here and who I don't think is ready to help us much yet in the PL.

I don't think JP is at the same level as Richarlison for instance and ready to make a similar level of impact in the PL, and I don't think anyone will be offering Richarlison-level money for JP any time soon,

 

I read somewhere that Pedro's wife went back to Brazil a month or two ago, and if that is right, that would roughly coincide with his downturn in form?

Could it be that he is missing her and that in turn has brought down his mood, as he has appeared to be just going through the motions recently and not been playing with his normal happy go lucky attitude in recent weeks.

 

It’s going to be tough moving players on. I can see Deeney staying, as he still seems to be highly regarded. Hopefully he is a bit part player, with limited appearances. I can only see Gray leaving if we pay part of his wages. Percia and Success should get a loan somewhere. I can see Wilmot leaving. I wouldn’t be surprised if Zinger going on loan to Udinese as he has decent technique but looks off the pace

 

I think JP is ahead of where Richarlison was when we signed him in many aspects of his game, but he is obviously well behind him in his physicality/speed etc.

I take the point I just think that if I was drawing up a list of players to sell to fund reinvestment, JP would be pretty much near the bottom of my list (after Sarr, Hughes, Sierralta).

I have been pretty vocal on here that we need a centre forward, but in fact what we need is goals from the front 3 or 4 and it doesnt matter who they come from. I think JP is a very unselfish player who does a lot to bring others into play and create space for Sarr etc. If we are struggling to find a striker for good value for money, but there is a goal scoring left winger on the market like Danjuma then I don't really see why Danjuma - JP - Sarr wouldn't work to keep us up.

Not quite sure why Armstrong isn't in the conversation generally though - more open play goals than Toney at a similar age, can play across the front 3 and would almost certainly cost significantly less.