Who Can We Realistically Get Rid Of This Summer?

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by Hogg-DEENEY!!!, May 9, 2021.

  1. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Agreed Armstrong should be in the equation if the valuation by Blackburn is within reach. Saying that he will be in the Premier next season without doubt. Obviously I only saw the two games against us and he caused us so many problems with his movement and pace but his goal scoring record speaks for itself. Very good player.
     
  2. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    Yeah - it would certainly be nice to have a forward who is actually capable of getting into the box for one of Sarr's crosses.
     
  3. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Well he could definitely keep up with him speed wise. I honestly feel he could be a 15+ striker in the Premier and that's what we desperately need.
     
  4. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Not arguing with your assessment if that’s how you feel - but I do think it’s overstated on here how we need someone who can get to that kind of goal ratio. Yes we desperately need a good striker - but also look at the top scorer charts over the past few seasons. 15+ would have them in amongst the top scorers in the league and is close to a 1 in 2 goal scoring record. There are some great players in the league who struggle to get near 15 goals every season...

    If we can get someone who gets 10-15 goals at PL level, we will have done very very well. I really can’t see Armstrong getting more than that and I wouldn’t go near the asking price either - but I’m not saying he wouldn’t score goals or isn’t far better than what we have. I do think he’s very similar to Joao Pedro positionally though and I don’t think that’s the profile that will be top of our list. Obviously just my opinion though so could be wrong!

    If Armstrong is available for £12m-£15m, I’d be over it. But I don’t think he is worth more than that - and the rumours are Blackburn want near double those prices.
     
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  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I’d say there’s no chance Zinckernagel is let go. With a full pre-season under his belt, I expect him to be closer to being a regular than the exit door.

    His assists were amongst the highest at the club in his limited time with us - and whilst he looked sloppy at times, I expect with more time on the training pitch he will acclimatise further and I think the PL will suit his skill set more than the Championship too.
     
  6. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    I guess Toney will set the bar for what he goes for but I would echo that - he certainly isn't anywhere near as well rounded as Toney. Anything much over £20m would be an overpayment irrespective of that fact there is no chance we pony up that much.

    I can't really see who else would either when there is already likely to be Toney and Tammy Abraham on the market for £30-40m.
     
  7. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I guess the true test will be when it becomes clear to what extent Covid is still affecting what clubs are prepared to pay/sell for and how much they ‘need’ to sell.

    Brentford can ask for £30m for Toney - but if no one wants to pay that in this market, and Brentford need to raise capital?

    How much are clubs going to be willing to gamble on their income revenues recovering and not being further impacted over the next 12 months?
     
  8. Chiswell

    Chiswell Academy Graduate

    I agree Zinck has talent, will create assists and possibly even score a few. My worry with him is that he appears to be a complete liability off the ball. He tries to make tackles but they are often mistimed. If he plays further forward so he doesn't have to chase back so much, that may help? Maybe he can be coached and improve but I wouldn't bet on it.
     
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I think he’s suffering a bit from a few things - unusual role, new league, new country. I think a pre-season will do him a world of good - but I agree that I think we will stunt his abilities if we keep trying to play him as a CM. He’s needs to be an advanced No.10 or a winger IMO.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  10. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I basically agree with you Burnsy, and I think we have not really found the right niche for him yet as he seems to be being used as a utility player at the moment, hence his in and out form.

    Overall he has done a decent job for the team so far, but are we being fair to him and are we really using him in the right way for us and for his personal development as a player, I fear that maybe we are not as yet.
     
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  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Except for a couple of his initial league sub appearances, he's been used almost exclusively as a 10 already for us.
     
  12. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Except we don't really play with a 10. It's more like two 8s.
     
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  13. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    He's been the most advanced of the midfield three in basically every game he's played in.

    Chalobah and Hughes were tasked with doing far more of the deep-lying defensive work with Zinc being allowed to get in to pockets in behind the striker. Zinc managed so many assists because most of what he did was siting behind the three forwards waiting to play short, simple passes in to them.
     
  14. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    I think we have to give some of these signings a bit of time to adapt - imagine moving from a side who score 10 goals a game on a plastic pitch to playing away at Luton a pitch that resembles the set of 1917. Covid regs can't have made it easy either.

    I think Zink has already improved significantly in terms of his defensive game since he signed (although he was starting from a pretty low level).

    Not seen the best from him going forwards - don't think the current formation does him any favours really.
     
  15. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Formation is good for him in his preferred position but he ain't shifting Sarr. Can't understand why they never gave him a chance on the left instead of Sema.
     
  16. LouOrns

    LouOrns First Year Pro

    This isn’t true, he’s been deployed no differently to Chalobah is at times, and not as advanced as Gosling at times either. His heatmap backs that up as well + has the highest defensive duels per 90 out of all the midfielders. A #10 is someone that’s does little to no defensive work, Zinckernagel definitely hasn’t been used as a #10
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  17. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    I think Armstrong only has one year left on his contract, if so would be available at a reasonable price
     
  18. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    He also rewarded Marty Byrde laundering millions of his dollars, by kidnapping and torturing him. Disgusting.
     
  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Haven't seen any articles that suggest he is sadly. Everything out there suggests Blackburn want £20m+
     
  20. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Of all years this is definitely a buyer's market though. I like him but as you said and with my sensible hat on I believe we'll be looking at a different type of striker. When you look at what some of the Premier managers are saying about limited budgets ours realistically will be lower than theirs.
     
  21. MIlton Dammers

    MIlton Dammers Reservist

    Transfermarkt says his current contract is up next summer. This, of course, could be wrong, but if it is correct I'd be amazed if BB get anything like that for him. Unless he signs a new deal they're going to have to sell him or lose him for free next year. They may say they want £20m, but that doesn't mean they'll get it.

    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/adam-armstrong/profil/spieler/250426
     
  22. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    To be fair - they are well within their rights to ask for that given the numbers he put up in a worse side than Brentford when Watkins went for £30m.

    Given we paid £17m for Gray, £20m for Armstrong looks a bargain...
     
  23. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    True. We will just have to see how the market starts to pan out. But I'm struggling to see really big moves this Summer from any club. Just have to take Inter for instance they're desperately trying to secure a 250m€ loan and outsiders are not even sure if this is to clear up some of their outstanding debts.
     
  24. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Villa have been prone to over paying since their return to the Premier just so they can secure the said players. It's the struggle of the promoted sides.
     
  25. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    Armstrong’s contract is up next summer and most Blackburn fans seem pretty certain he is heading out. I think Blackburn are hoping that if they quote £25m some club will pay it but you’d think that in the end he’ll go for somewhere around £15m. I don’t think he’s the right fit for us at either price, though he is a good player and would get goals at PL level.
     
  26. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    This is likely to have an effect on however much it is that Blackburn can/will accept for Armstrong, also:

    upload_2021-5-13_11-18-25.png

    A 40% sell-on - far more punitive than the Utd clause that helped see Zaha unable to move on the season before last.
     
  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    It doesn’t mean they will get it - but likewise, I’d say it also doesn’t mean they will drop their asking price by 50% either sadly. Which is what we’d need to make it viable I suspect.

    Plus, there will be clubs with stronger finances than us in the PL who may well part with £20m.

    I suspect the club would far sooner get Rafael Santos Borre in for free and supplement that with Cucho, Joao Pedro and keep one of Gray/Deeney. And use what money we do have elsewhere.
     
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  28. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    Not sure I would call £30m an overpayment to be honest. Well rounded premier league quality striker now on the fringes of the England squad. Their striker position is sorted for the immediate future unless he has a bad injury or a big club pays silly money.

    On the other hand - how much have spunked away on utter dross strikers that have had little to no impact ? (Oulare, Success, Penaranda, Gray, Sinclair, Okaka, Perica). We will have spent a similar amount to them and yet we are in a position where we don't actually have a striker.

    Not that I don't think this would be better business, but if we signed him on a free it is not really going to be "free". He will want a singing on fee and significantly higher wages to compensate him.

    There is also something to be said for bringing in a young hungry championship player familiar with the country and desperate to make the step up.
     
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  29. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    Will say, though, that those significantly higher wages will be in relation to his current wages in Argentina - I would wager Armstrong is starting from rather a loftier position in that sense to begin with, so the saving compared to him and Borre being free or not is still a considerable factor.
     
  30. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    I'd have thought River Plate pay at the very least comparable wages with Blackburn. He also turned down a reportedly "lucrative" new deal at River to be able to leave on a free
     
  31. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    It's very difficult to tell, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if Blackburn pay higher wages, at least at certain times/with certain players. Of course, it's perfectly possible it could go the other way too.
     
  32. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Well if you put it like that and compare it to the dross we've bought I agree. But imo £30 for a Championship striker is always a gamble, yes he's done well but it's not always the case.
     
  33. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    I would find it highly unlikely that they pay similar amounts. They're is so much more money being thrown around in English football compared to Argentine football. Only yesterday I read that Richard Keogh was on 24k a week at Derby, ok the contract was older but I was stunned incredible money for a player of his position and calibre.
     
  34. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    I guess he was captain and an important player in a side who generally pushed for promotion (but ****ed it). Mel Morris pissed away enormous amounts of money - hence why he sold the stadium to himself and why they are looking down the barrel of a points deduction.

    I honestly don't know - I just find it hard to believe there is that much less money kicking around at the two big clubs given they have such enormous fan bases. I thought the Venkys spent **** all and only signed free transfers / loans hence why they went down to league 1.

    Its all speculation anyway and doesnt matter as we could spend more than both as we are massive.
     
    Carpster likes this.
  35. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    When have Gosling and Zinc ever been on the pitch at the same time? Their heatmaps are nearly identical. Unlike Hughes and Chalobah, they also both have more involvement in the opposition half than their own.

    Hughes:

    [​IMG]

    Chalobah:

    [​IMG]

    Gosling:

    [​IMG]

    Zinc:

    [​IMG]

    Zinc's heatmap actually looks like an advanced central midfielder/left-winger hybrid (with not too much actual game involvement).

    Being the most advanced of a midfield three, and being a 10, are pretty much the same thing anyway. There aren't many teams that can really afford to have any passengers not putting a shift in defensively except for perhaps their lone striker. When you're facing another team playing a midfield three, which is often, then their deepest lying midfielder will always be the man of the "10" or your most advanced midfielder to mark, however you wish to name it. When playing teams with deep-lying playmakers like Swansea with Grimes or Chelsea with Jorginho, you don't just allow them to always pick up the ball unmarked with loads of time and space just because your most advanced midfielder is a bit powder-puff.

    Also, if you count actually completed tackles, along with interceptions, Zinc's defensive contribution is the lowest of the 4, even behind Gosling. His attempted tackles is a bit of a red herring as Zinc often loses his man and then makes a half-hearted attempt to tackle the opponent from the wrong side, often resulting in a foul but rarely actually getting the ball.

    Per 90 minutes:

    Hughes - tackles completed 2.6 ; interceptions 1.7 ; total 4.3
    Chalobah
    - tackles completed 2 ; interceptions 1.8 ; total 3.8
    Gosling
    - tackles completed 1.8 ; interceptions 1.1 ; total 2.9
    Zinc
    - tackles completed 2 ; interceptions 0.4 ; total 2.4
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021

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