What Is Wrong With Our Fans?

But having 4 managers last time and 3 this time (at least) has nothing to do with “having a bad run” has it?

That is actual decision making and stuff that has actually happened??

It didn’t happen by accident did it?

 

I’ve not said they are ‘destroying our club’. And I have always allowed everyone to voice their own opinions. We are voicing ours and of course we are going to defend them and freely debate them.

If you want to discuss being even-handed…why does your last sentence only state that any new owner isn’t guaranteed to be any better - yet completely ignore the fact that the opposite is also possible? That any new owner could bring a freshness like Elton did? Like the Pozzo’s did?

But recognising that doesn’t fit your narrative either does it? See, it goes both ways - as it always has.

 

I don’t have an issue with a difference of opinion really. If people just let everyone be then all good with me. However over the past 5 years there have been a group of people who jump on critics of the Pozzos. You say we don’t allow others to have an opinion, but it’s the other way round.

My opinion is that they are dreadful owners. I don’t really care what others think as long as I’m allowed to say it.

 

Others have used the word "destroying". It wasn't just you I was quoting as I noted.
Saying a new owner "isn't guaranteed to be any better" obviously allows for the owner to be better . Would you have been happier if I'd said "might be better but isn't guaranteed to be any better" ? Yes a new owner could be great like Elton. But the second example you've given is Pozzo. We literally have only had one "good" owner in the last 50 years haven't we ?
Of course it goes both ways. I don't have a narrative. Just pointing out that most may be a little less worked up about all this than those who do have a narrative which is why there is no great revolution happening.

 

Sure. No worries. I agree with some of what you say. However I'm sure plenty look back to Bonser, Petchey, Bassini etc and feel that despite the poor run we've had and likely relegation from the prem, we may well be better with the devil we know. I don't feel they are dreadful owners or are destroying our club but I'd be very happy for them to sell to an owner who will allow us to slip back to being a mid/low champ side who grow their own mid/low champ talent and sell to bigger clubs, abandoning this desire to compete in the prem by buying a squad of rejects/mercenaries every time we get to the prem. With GT mkII and Boothroyd, we knew we weren't good enough, but at least we liked the players and knew they ran their hearts out for us.

 

Of course not. We have a bad run, we change the manager. Would you have stuck with boy wonder ? Would you have kept Ranieri ? They are quick on the trigger, we know that. Most of the chnages they have made over the last decade have been successful with hindsight. Not so much the 2 relegation seasons. Not really sure what your point is ?

 

Come on tut, this is just laughable now, really desperate and illogical stuff you’re coming out with. I think you know exactly what I’m saying but for some bizarre reason you’re playing dumb and concentrating on the individual appointments. So we’re blaming the individual appointments now? Presumably they held Gino at gun point so they could get the job and do badly at it on purpose?

Very, very odd.

 

You can be as ambiguous as you like - but you added my name in with comments I hadn’t made which was purposely disingenuous at best.

You often post debating against those views that you seem to find so offensive or incorrect, they show you do have a narrative - you just don’t like to own it and tend to say stuff and then step back from it claiming some sort of Swiss-like neutrality.

 

I have honestly no idea what point you are trying to make by this or your previous post.

 

What is "my narrative" then ?

 

We wouldn’t get angry if we could just accept your belief that we sit around 30th-40th in the natural pecking order and are just fortunate to be where we are etc etc. And the natural order will redress itself soon. So on and so forth.

How’s that for a start? That’s a narrative you hold despite you claiming you don’t have one?

 

Not to mention having an average tenure of 10 games for PL managers just being down to “a bad run” and nothing to do with any sort of conscious decision making process.

 

I've never said that is just down to having a bad run ? We fire managers more quickly than other clubs who find themselves in the same situation. Of course that's "conscious decision making" ?

 

Yes I guess I'd never thought of that as a narrative but I guess that's broadly what I believe. 6 years or so we were 3 or 4 leagues above L****. We are similar sized clubs and pre 1980 they were generally above us. It was clear that 3 division gap would be closed and we had to enjoy it while it lasted. Next season we will both be in the champ again where the size of our fanbase and finances suggest we both belong.

 

Sure about that?

 

No ! POs a distinct possibility for them.

 

Gino went through a season of no one being in the ground so I doubt he will be too bothered if we average 14K next season. He will see it as the PL supporters leaving the ship. If he starts to see 5-7k at each game next season then something might click that people are unhappy with the team. Even then I cant see him being that bothered if he has already pocketed £m from the sale of Sarr and Denis. Overall I really dont think he's too bothered whether we turn up in our numbers or not.

 

There’s a stark difference between fans being forced to stay away and choosing to.

 

I wish I'd taken a photo of the middle-aged goon decked out from head-to-toe in WFC tat clapping the players off the pitch at the end of last night's sh1te-fest. It would have made a wonderful illustration to this thread. Sadly, I've no idea how to take 'selfies'

 

Ultimately most people don't care that much, for many it's a day out with their friends and family and if the football doesn't go well they're usually over it by the time they've reached their car or pub. We're a family club by nature and that seeps into the general attitudes fans have towards the club and how they react to things like last night.

Unfortunately, for every fan who says they won't go, there will be plenty to take their place if we start off well next season in the Championship.

 

Personally I don’t like this discourse of “what is wrong with our fans.” We are a fairly average fan base probably about as compliant/expectant as fans of most other teams (aside from the fans of fallen giants who generally feel like they have a god-given right to PL football due to an FA Cup victory in 1923 or the like). And if we do have fewer than average “I’m going to verbally abuse our players because we just lost” types, I personally think that’s a good thing and a key part of making football accessible for families and the like.

I think for a range of reasons (better informed and more passionate being the most significant) the forum has a different demographic from the general fan base and again I expect there are similar dynamics at work at most clubs.

I think the best way to engage the ownership and communicate the frustration many feel would be to have an 1881 style banner held across the entire Rookery saying something like “Gino - buck up or sell up” - I think that would garner a lot of media attention. Action is more effective than omission (particularly as absences could be ascribed to us being a not compelling way to spend a weekend/evening rather than opposition to the hierarchy). But to each their own.

 

Agree, I doubt if Gino will be the slightest bit bothered if people turn up or not. He makes his money putting his player assets in the shop window and hoping their value goes up. They’ll still be scouts watching whether we are in the PL or not.

 

Easier said than done when it's an addiction for so many.

 

£60k a week!!

 

We have been in the top division before and not had the quality to stay up. This season looks the same. There is no point in everyone being negative and scathing about it else the WFC forum wouldn't be a nice environment to log in to and some would stay away. We all have our own views, our own expectations, our own tolerances, our own priorities in life away from football. Yes, the owners could do better in some areas, I can't disagree with that, but I said the same before they were here with previous ones. If they go we may well be no better off, and the negativity and the scathing by some towards the owners will still be here.

 

I despised those seasons as much as any we are relegated in. They are just joyless horrible patches in time and sadly we're in one now. Most players have never cared, they hope the club is successful at the time because that increases their own product, themselves, if the team struggles they can move on. I've worked for a company that was doing well and it was probably the happiest I've been at any of the companies I've worked for but when they started to struggle I left. the same happens with a lot of footballers and it always has.
There is nothing wrong with our fans, many don't like what we're doing as a club but just because they don't want to boycott something they like doing (even when it's a bit of a struggle) there is something wrong with them. We've had protests in the past, albeit a while a go now but they don't really do much but if you want to stop going then that's your choice but don't label fans that continue to go as having something wrong with them. @The undeniable truth - apologies, this started as replying to your post but I just kept going!

 

Please god no. Don't even think it

 

Football has always been first and foremost a piss up, with the football just background noise. So I can understand matches being called a social.

What I can't understand is clapping appalling performances and staying to the end out of some kind of sense of duty to the club/players.

But relegation/promotion/who the owners are etc? Who really gives a shyt.

 

I've said before I can't see us establishing ourselves in the prem again so I expect all fantastic promotions to be followed by a season of misery like this one as was the case pre Pozzo. When we were breaking new ground in the late 70s and 80, there seemed to be something to aim for, progress was always possible. Now we've been in the prem 6 of the last 7 years, there's no real excitement in being back here as there would have been for Brentford for example and I can't see us getting another run of seasons at this level.

 

That's not true, we regularly extend senior players' contracts when they still have a couple of years to run, so we have these assets secured well into their mid 30s.

 

Those scouts will be falling over themselves next season to get a glimpse of Sema, Kucka, Cleverley, Cathcart, Fletcher and the vast array of signings to please Mogi Bayat. I can't wait to see who the next Pozzo hidden gem will be!

 

It is an internet hive mind thing. How much of the hive mind is AI is anybodys guess though, the military are at least 20 years ahead of what we see now. Divide and conquer plain and simple but thats probably just a conspiracy theory right?

 

Ageist.

Sporting/athletic performance isn't affected by age and if you (or science) says it is then you're a bigot.

 

I was OK with giving Sema a go this season, but now I'm not sure I even want him as more than a squad player if we go down. He seems to be in decline - mediocre towards the end of last season, with little to redeem his (too) many appearances this season. Three years ago at least he got a goal and a couple of assists and amid all the criticism he did get a bit of praise. And he’s bound to have his confidence shattered by his sporadic appearances and awful displays and unlike Kiko I can’t see him getting much if any of it back.

 

I think it will be the likes of the Colombian who is coming and Pedro.