What Is Wrong With Our Fans?

Tonight I've been told that players like Cleverley and Cathcart aren't a part of the problem, and that age doesn't matter - apparently because some players are really good in their mid to late 30's we'll just ignore that they're exceptions to the rule and the scientific fact that athletic performance and capability begins to decline in your 30's for the vast majority of people, and that that will of course begin to have an impact on your ability to maintain your peak level, which is the reason why most teams aren't made up of eleven 35 year olds - and that I'm "ageist" for pointing this out and using that as reasoning for why they're not good enough, which is ******* hilarious.

Our fans will fiercely defend and search for excuses for now serial losers like Cleverley, Cathcart, Femenia etc. who are all well past whatever their best once was and have already played major roles in taking us down before a couple of years ago, and yet players like Sierralta - who is young, looks like he actually wants to win when he plays and was fantastic last season - are very quickly written off as "nowhere near good enough" after 5 starts. How does this make any sense whatsoever? Of course those players aren't the only ones - not by a long shot, the majority of the squad is woeful and that's on the owners - but at this point they're repeat, serial offenders in letting us down and not being good enough. Why do they deserve a pass?

Then there's this ridiculous "jus b positiv guys!" sh*te which completely flies in the face of logic when we are, again, clearly in an undeniably poor state. Why can people not just accept when things are bad and adjust their responses accordingly? Things at this club are **** right now. We have no plan, no identity on or off the pitch, we are a revolving door for horrendously poorly recruited and unsuited players and managers and the board hide from the fans until the end of the season when they spew pure lies to shut everyone up. How can anyone be expected maintain a genuine connection with the club with those things being the case and how can anyone be OK with it?

None of the above is out of the ordinary. These sort of opinions are very regularly thrown about by a lot of people. Maybe what might really help is if our fan base as a whole stopped being such wet, delusional, spineless losers - much like our playing squad - stopped giving everyone a little pat on the back, and actually woke up, stood up and said "actually, this isn't good enough", and made that known to the owners who after years of good work, are now undoing it all and stripping this club of it's soul. Pozzo and Duxberry know our fans are weak and won't cause them any problems which makes their growing incompetence all the easier to continue with and get away with. Blind, baseless optimism that flies in the face of logic achieves absolutely **** all, and nor does enabling failure.

That's what our fans are. Enablers. Enablers of mediocrity and failure. I have no doubt some of the responses will be "it's been worse, you must be young" or "at least we're not Bolton!" etc., but that is exactly what I'm talking about and really not the point, is it? In almost any aspect of life there's almost always a potentially worse alternative, situation or outcome, but that doesn't make the reality OK or acceptable. Having a club who is now widely known for nothing but being the loony club that changes managers every couple of months, with a board who seemingly only floats between either ignoring or openly lying to the fans and who no longer seem to have any plan whatsoever, and a jumbled, mess of a squad of players who clearly are not willing to fight for the badge or anywhere near good enough (both, in most cases, with the former being completely unforgiveable), is not OK, and nor is the dangerous, troubling trajectory we are quite clearly on.

Wake up. We are losing our club.

 

Mate, just film yourself in your car making up awful chants and you’ll be the new superfan. Ah, I’m kidding. That spot has been taken. By a grown adult.

I don’t know if that’s are better or worse than the ones that post stuff like ‘there’s no place I’d rather be than at Vicarage Road with this lot’ on social media. I genuinely saw someone tonight refer to the remaining games as ‘socials’.

I actually wonder if that the vast majority of our supporters are just Truman Show style extras paid to do it by the club. They just smile on regardless of what is dished up in front of them. Either that or robots.

 

We do have some hilarious fans, got tutted at as I left after the third. I don’t think they’re bad people, they just need the hope to cling on to rather than seeing what is blatantly in front of them.

In regards to the ages and loser mentality, I’ve written this post like 9 times before I might as well save it in my notes but it sums up our squad quite well so I’ll do it again.

Ben Foster - 3x relegations to Championship

Kiko Femenia - 1x relegation to Championship

Craig Cathcart - 2x relegation to Championship

Moussa Sissoko - 1x relegation to Championship

Tom Cleverly - 1x relegation to Championship

Josh King - 1x relegation to Championship

Ismaila Sarr - 1x relegation to Championship

We have a squad with too many losers 10 relegations from this division among them and that’s ignoring the likes of Kabasele, Masina and then attitude problems with some, 34/35 year olds and to top it off (the least worrying ones however) total inexperience with punts who have limited career games under their belt Kalu, Louza, Kayembe & Kamara. Squad has no synergy whatsoever.

*I forgot Gosling & Rose LOL couple relegations there between them too.

 

"Who needs Hughesy when we've got Sissoko" they chanted as the future captain who genuinely seemed to love our club and played a huge role in getting us promoted last season put in a man of the match performance that none of our midfielders are capable of. He was then subbed off and the majority of the stadium booed him and called him a 'w*nker'.

Meanwhile the people responsible for allowing him to get into the final year of his contract, lowballing him with a new contract offer, selling him on the cheap and replacing him with a past it Sissoko and one of the worst players I've ever seen play for us in Kucka sit in the director's box escaping any criticism whatsoever. One person near me shouted for Duxbury to **** off after the fourth goal but the rest just stood there half-heartedly singing 'Watford til I die' like deranged cultists as if that makes them loyal, devoted fans rather than actually holding to account the parasites who are slowly but surely destroying all that was good about this club.

I'm sure once we get relegated there will be a few grumblings of discontent but nothing that won't be fixed by a wishy-washy, contemptuous statement about learning lessons and a few matey appearances on 'fan' podcasts over the summer. Oh, and a brand new lick of paint for the 1881 bunker of course.

 

I’ve just got home. That was so depressing it was nearly as depressing as the previous home match. I think I need a break from going, it’s just not worth the time, money and effort. I don’t miss many games normally but I think I’ll give the Arsenal game a miss and try to do something that’s fun instead.

 

So why dont YOU do something about it then? If the fan base is as weak as you maintain then take the lead, im sure theres plenty of others out there who feel the same as you and would join if you got something organised.

I noticed this in the if there was a protest thread, but this forum seems to have a group of people who are quick to take a swipe at the fan base for being inactive or indifferent to whats going on, yet they ironically arnt willing to get the ball rolling themselves.

The finances are a concern, this season has been well & truley ballsed up, there has been no conceivable strategy to our recruitment, the managerial appointments have been poorly thought out and the squad we are seeing put out each week is very different from the picture Duxbury painted in the off season. There isnt a Watford fan out there who would disagree with you on any of this. You clearly have strong views on this going by most of your posts so why dont you do something about it? Why are you waiting for someone else to do it for you?

 

I have taken action. I've stopped going and won't be going or giving a penny to the club again this season, and I am as vocal and forward with my feelings as my reach allows across here and social media.

It's not just about "taking action" though, is it? It's also the issue of complete inaction and the weak minded enabling of the ridiculous way the club is run and the direction we're heading in by a huge portion of our fan base. No one is calling for a sudden protest of 20,000 strong fans marching through Vicarage Road, rather at least just an end to this head in the sand "yeah but it was worse back in X", "it's not that bad, we could be X club" and "just be positive and support da boys" bizarre, delusional, point-missing mindset which runs rife through our fan base and makes it all the easier for our board and our spineless players to completely phone it in, as they have/are once again this season.

 

We're going down, I'm yelling timber
You better move, you better dance
Let's make a night, you won't remember
I'll be the one, you won't forget

 

Can I try and improve this?

We're going down, I'm yelling POZZO
You better sell, you better sack
Don’t build a squad, we won't remember
We won’t renew, Our f@@@ing tickets

 

That’s why cult of Gino is so apt, these people do not, first and foremost support Watford, they support Gino. Obviously they also want Watford to do well but it’s secondary to supporting everything Gino does because he gave them 5 years of their precious PL football. That’s why they’ll defend the indefensible, players like Cleverley and Cathcart will be defended to the hilt because the reason they’re on the pitch is due to decisions made by Gino. It doesn’t matter that the reason Watford are crap is because of these decisions.

They’ve lost sight of the fact they support Watford and that one way or another whoever the owner is will be temporary, the owner is not Watford, but they place the owner ahead of Watford.

All because we had a period of success which is very much in the rear view mirror, unfortunately they are unable to grasp this reality and look at what is actually happening now.

 

Why do people still defend the club?

Well firstly getting the club out of the championship twice after booting out Big Bad Baz puts you in credit. You cant simply wash this away by pointing at Cleverley and Cathcart.

Then there's the finances, we can't compete with 75% of this league in the financial stakes. Like it or not - more money = higher league position. We can only buy players who are coming down from loftier careers like Sissoko and King or ones who are bargain value like Etebo, Kamara, Dennis. Or older such as Kucka, Cleverley, Foster and Cathcart. Or hopeful young players like Pedro, Louza. Sarr is blamed for our last relegation, 35m on one winger when the defence needed fixing up.

Thats not to say the transfers have been the best we can afford or even good, because frankly we are all fed up with the mogi bayet brown envelopes and backhanders from budget Belgium being brought back from timbucktoo ********.

The club dont seem to know another way. Brentford get their value in transfers from Scandinavia, we have gone Africa. There's otherwise not much difference.

 

I'm not really bothered one way or the other. It's a game. A soap opera. I wish Watford do well, but there's little or nothing I, nor none of you (unless you're a billionaire considering buying the club), can do to have any significant influence on that.

I understand a bit of whinging. Who doesn't feel fed up after a defeat, especially a whupping by humble opposition? Who doesn't feel great after a good win? But I think sometimes people get a bit too over-invested in it. A bit too wrapped up. Sometimes nearly to the point of ridiculousness. Like housewives fretting about Hilda Ogden's divorce and what dirty Den should have done.

It's a soap opera. Entertainment that's marketed.

What'll happen next week? You'll have to tune in to find out.

 

You call “not going”, action ? Look what Putin has done to Ukraine this morning. That’s “action”. You need to think bigger. How about a hunger strike ?

 

I reckon there was a maximum of 14,000 in the stadium last night and probably about 10,000 after the 4th went in.

 

Excellent plan. I was so upset with the behaviour of my local MP I stopped voting altogether. On reflection a better strategy would have been to support someone else.

 

But this is his point. We have so many odd fans that the people who make sense like Nath are very much in the minority. He would be shouted down if he was critical off the owners.

We have a truly strange fanbase. They wind me up more than anything Pozzo does.

 

Again, it's remarkable how comments (on other social media platforms) blaming the manager are far more common than anyone questioning Poxbury.

 

I think our fan base are generally more middle-class than those of other teams.

 

Not happy with Pozzo? Go and support someone else.

Odd.

 

I think that's the point. For some fans, WFC is everything and the current situation is simply devastating. For others its very disappointing but there is more to life.

I'm pretty fed up this morning. Far more so about what's happening in Ukraine than whether our owners are recruiting good managers and players, and how hard the players are trying.

 

The problem is about identity. The Watford fan identity is about the glorious GT period, that culminated in six seasons in the top division. But at the end of it what was left? How did that regime lay the foundations for sustained success. Or did all crumble once the totemic leader gave up and went elsewhere to ply his trade?

The club has got young players in the door, many of whom simply cannot compete at this level. If Sierralta, is one of the best two central defenders, when available for selection it would be simply stupid of Hodgson not to pick him, and he would. But the player would have to be a lot better than the ragged one who turned up at Elland Road this season. Good home grown young players capable of playing a whole season in the first team come at a premium.

Yesterdays opposition are a good template. Large investment in a club that has gone bankrupt twice in the last twenty five years is now yielding success. I can see them having many years of mid table finishes before their next relegation. But their fans do have an identity, and a theme tune.

The Watford supporters now have little to connect them. I know it sounds silly but the atmosphere at the ground is set by the moment the players walk out. Not to a naff “theme tune” that all the support can spend 30 seconds belting out the words together. Coming together. Instead we have a dull tune that once (and even that programme dropped it) was the opening to a TV police drama that a former manager liked and imposed on us in 1962.

The club has made gestures to the vocal support, moving people to accommodate them, giving them space for their social club,etc. As Delia said where have you been this year?

But ultimately this a club from a small town with plenty of options for people to watch professional football. It’s not isolated and a regional club like Norwich. Only people from Watford support the team and many football fans in the locality support other teams. Surprisingly bigger more successful Premier League teams.

 

Well once you stop going to games and stop supporting the club at all by buying product , and instead use it as a vehicle for your social media outpourings, you really are not a supporter. You are an anguished observer. Maybe an earnest fretful one. Or you take a casual interest, as a conversation piece.

Like my middle brother, who notes the results just as a bonding technique, as i and my other brother are season ticket holders. He has no interest other than showing us he knows we are supporters, by keeping up with the results. He does not go to matches, he does not buy product. Born and bred in the town; he is not a Watford FC supporter.

what was the OP saying a supporter of a professional football club is? If You actively don’t watch matches - is that what a supporter is - You will attend Watford FC matches, but only when the team is successful?

Unfortunately some people choose the club they support and is actually quite transactional. others are lumbered with one. If you are in the latter group you take the rough with the smooth, in sickness and in health, to death do us part.

 

If people want to support the club that's their right, if people want to shout the squad is &*^% and the owner is a ^%&^ that is also their right

How has 'there is only one acceptable view and everyone has to follow it' been allowed to infest everything from football to politics?

Life wasn't like this 30 years ago, is this a 21st c generation thing?

 

Maybe he just wants this dreadful owner gone who is contaminating the culture of the club and then will return to watch them whatever division that is in? It’s not always about on field success.

I would argue the people who praise this individual’s stewardship are not true supporters, as he is destroying the club we all love. Difference of opinion you see?

 

I agree with that, but it works the other way too. It’s an opinion if it’s better to actually attend and shout your disgust or walk out or whatever or shout your support and stay to the bitter end applauding the players as the leave the pitch is down to personal choice.

If you don’t go at all its simply academic though what you would do if you attend the matches.

 

I can see that argument, but what has been destroyed? Genuinely, I ask because I suspect it’s an emotional aspect that people feel embarrassed or less proud or whatever because we are not going to be a top ten club under their ownership. It’s “destroying” their emotional response to following the football club.

But destroyed the actual club - made it less appealing to a future owner. I don’t think so.

Has the owner tried to burn down the club (some have). Has it gone bankrupt like Palace have twice in recent times? Has it plummeted to league 2 like Bolton after a decade in the Premier League? Is the stadium falling to bits? Have we consistently underperformed in competitions since they bought the club ( I think an Arsenal supporter could level that at their current owner), etc.

 

Literally not going to games is the only way that Gino’s eyes will be opened, I am convinced of that.

Whether that is a concerted effort by fans to not attend one game in particular (unlikely) or just a natural eroding of numbers over a number of games (far more likely) is open to debate.

 

You think having 3 managers+ per season is normal/desired by anyone? Do you think repeatedly signing players like Danny Rose, saying they won’t do it again, but doing it more is normal/desired?

What is the club if it isn’t the manager and the playing staff? What are you actually getting behind every week?

The current owner has sacrificed everything for very short term gain.

 

I would say the owner has destroyed our finances. If we don’t bounce back next season I think we will be in serious trouble. And please don’t come back with selling Sarr and Dennis for £80m because it isn’t happening (and even then it’s not clear that would solve the problem).

Additionally the owner has turned us into a trading platform which results in the first team stuffed full of old cheap mercenaries. We have zero youth development and our players have no connection to the club. We have zero long term planning with our ludicrous churn of managers and short term goals (which by financial necessity will happen next year).

If we went bust in 2025, our fans would blame Covid, not Pozzo. I can’t stand what our club had become and I loath our fanbase who support our owner over our club.

This makes me sad.

 

The trouble is that you, Jumbo, Nath etc all state the "destroying our club" "contaminating the culture" bit as fact rather than opinion and then only allow different opinions on how that should be addressed. Maybe most fans just see it that they are having a bad run and have bad decisions like owners of many clubs? I don't like their style of management and when it goes wrong there's not of affection for the owners to fall back on, and their past track record of delivering success is getting further and further behind. But I don't think they will change and there's no guarantee the next owners will be any better than Petchey, Bassini, or that guy who sold to Elton in 76/77.