So called "Islamic State"

Gladly - The headline on the front page of the SUN on Wednesday was that a 15 year old becomes the youngest I.S recruit. Her name was Yusra Hussien - not an overly british name. - her parents - mum safiya and dad Mohammed - again not overly British names not surprisingly they both come from Somalia - again not Britain. All of her friends pictured in the paper were wearing headgear - again not really Britain.
Hopefully this explains my comments and is just 1 example.

 

I resent this, he's just a misguided 15 year old kid. There are millions of long term immigrants and their siblings that are honest, hard working Brits so don't bother quoting from the Murdoch press if you want any credibility.

 

Which of the Norman Or Anglo Saxon bloodline more British ?

 

If you want any credibility read and reply to the post correctly - 'he's' - not in post my friend - millions is spot on on though - a few millions too many - do you come from Luton?

 

You probably meant to include the word 'are' within your sentence - "Which of the Norman Or Anglo Saxon bloodline more British ?"
But it was a good try Carlos if this was your first attempt at English.

 

Oops misread but still the same. Are you actually proud of being a racist bigot?

 

How are you defining 'British' exactly? Simply by the passport they hold? I was entitled to US citizenship and even had I gone down that route and acquired a US passport does that make me American all of a sudden? If their loyalties are towards Britain's enemies you still consider them to be British?

 

It isn't any use arguing with Godfather, he has already said that Henning knew (as an aid worker) what he was getting into when he went there delivering food and supplies to Syrian children, so it is his own fault (or words to that effect).

What makes me laugh is that he often tries to take the moral high ground on matters, like this little dig at you on racism, yet he proudly told us that the immigrant workers he has come across are lazy and not worth employing (or words to that effect).

 

They condemn his killing on the one hand, yet call all Muslims to Jihad against the alliance which is fighting to contain ISIL.

 

I totally agree, and you have put simply what I was trying to get over weeks ago. There cannot be the slightest drop of excuse or mitigation for what they are doing. It is just pure evil.

 

I'm not being PC. The quote was 'It annoys me that they are even called British. Just look at them, look at their names, look at their parents.'

What has their names and the look of their parents got to do with it?

My father is from Mauritius and a Muslim and my Mother is English. I don't have a common english name due to my father. He is a British citizen but due to his looks he is not British?.

I'm not White but I was born here but if you looked at me I'm not British? I have no religious interests at all. And I condemn the acts of these barbaric people.

 

Don't bother Zz ... I simply said that Brits should not be there in any capacity, it's an arab problem and it should remain that way. And I said Polish brickies were not better than british ones as some (the paying customer) liked to infer, they were just cheaper. My personal experience comes from a time when just about anyone could claim to be a proper brickie and many of those immigrants actually weren't, they didn't need to be at a quarter of the going rate. Slow is not a euphemism for lazy so don't misquote me.

 

Being born here and living here for their whole life to date is a pretty fair measure I think.

 

That's nice but I wasn't asking you. I was asking Godfather who referred to millions of long term immigrants who are hard working Brits.

 

That's fine but you still haven't answered the question. Is avoiding questions a Norman or Anglo Saxon trait, or are you a muslim thief?

 

Quote him next time then. I assumed it was a continuation of your previous line of thought at post #349.

 

What he said

But seriously, those domiciled here since WW II (having chosen British citizenship), their kids and their kid's kids ... need I go on. "Long term immigrants' is a poor choice of words, I agree.

 

My apologies.

 

Integration

A number of points:

Like all on here I abhore ISIL and all their actions. No excuses. Take them out with extreme prejudice a.s.a.p. They murder, rape and mutilate far more of their own than of us currently. However, when it comes to motivations, they may be more complex than simply stating that ISIS is 'evil'. While I would think that their principal motivation is a ludicrously o.t.t. interpretation of the harsher aspects of their religion, they also claim that the previous and ongoing actions of the west in the Islamic world are a motivation too. In that, they may be telling the truth. That in no way suggests that motivation is, in any way, a justification for their actions however.

I was disappointed with Squibba's earlier contributions on this thread. He seemed to be suggesting that is was pretty pointless the wider moslem community coming out with high profile condemnation on a regular basis because it would make little difference to the minority who might be potentially radicalised. Not good enough Squibba. I think it's reasonable that the rest of us should expect moslems to be right in the vanguard of condemnation of a minority that is a subset of their own community and that goes for Rotherham, Rochdale, Derby and Oxford too. I welcomed the letter from the Imams in the Independent and the condemnation from Imams and the wider moslem community leading up to and after Alan Henning's murder. Keep it up and wind it up and let's hear more from their political leaders too.

My perception is that, in our multi-cultural society, it is some in the Asian moslem community who remain least socially integrated. There is an ongoing problem with forced marriages and female genital mutilation and there are third generation women who don't speak English. This may be particularly true amongst those who derive their ancestry from the more rural parts of Pakistan. I have seen them described as 'a medieval rural society, dropped, Tardis like, into modern, liberal 21st century Britain'. There are certainly moslem ghettoes, particularly in midland and northern industrial towns and cities, which may, admittedly, be party due to being made to feel unwelcome elsewhere.There seems to be a perception on their part that the rest of us are decadent. Young women letting it all hang out on a Friday night. Not modest. Maybe the last three sentences carry a valid point. But it would also seem that, while some Christians and most Sikhs, Hindus and Jews follow their religions devotedly, that doesn't interfere unduly with their social integration with a secular majority in the same way. Economic integration of the moslem community seems less effected.

Two more points that might inform the above para:

I have seen some on here argue that if WFC relocated to an out-of-town site adjacent to a motorway, to make access and parking easier, then our gates would increase. Personally I think the affect would be marginal at best. The draw of the big London clubs is just too strong. However, it would be hard to argue that, if the Vic had flown in from outer-space, it could have landed any more conveniently for the Asian community of West Watford to attend the match. But the last time I looked they were under-represented. Why is that? They're also under-represented on the nation's pitches whereas the Afro-Caribbean derived minority is over-represented probably mostly due to natural athleticism.

Until recently, my sister taught at a secondary school in Halifax. At her school a majority of the pupils were Asian, something like 7O%, that majority derived mostly from the Pakistani heritage community. Apart from also being an 'Orns fan, and attending, in particular, a number of away games in northern England, she's also a cricket fan. When England were playing Pakistan, the majority of her pupils supported Pakistan. No problem. I've lived in Scotland for 34 years but still support England against Scotland in any sporting fixture. Scotland's my second team though and always has been. What upset my sister was that when England played Australia in an Ashes series her pupils were simply ambivalent and uninterested. She felt she was making an effort to be inclusive, even to the extent of learning a smattering of Urdu and going out of her way to help the non-English speakers, whereas her pupils were making very little effort to integrate at all. They just weren't bothered. So what's that about?

That's it.

 

I'm gonna try and answer some of your points paragraph-wise.

2nd paragraph- you're right in that there should be more Muslim organisations condemning these events. Let me make it clear that the imperative word is "organisations" and not people. You can bet your life that the majority of Muslims in this country abhor the actions of ISIL. However there are plenty that feel that not only them speaking out won't help to change the radicalised, but that also their voice won't get heard. The media have done very well in creating an image of Muslims to be "the evil ones", so much so that it's come to the point that they know that a front page article on Muslims speaking out against the actions of ISIL/Al Qaeda/Choudary won't sell as much/be noticed as much as "Islamic State Beheads Another" or any other headline that implies that it's Muslims committing another barbaric act on the behalf of their backwards book (not my thoughts on the Quran, just what some believe). Yes they should still try and get their voices heard, but when there's these kind of blockades, you can forgive a person who just thinks they can't do anything.

4th paragraph- Asians have generally been less interested in football because it's not a sport in our countries. I can speak for myself in that my parents actively tried to steer me away from footy (nice try mum and dad). The parents still link football with the old-school hooliganism and the far-right ideas that used to go hand-in-hand with that. Give it a generation- when my generation become the parents and teach our children that footy ain't that.

5th paragraph- some Asians haven't connected with the country because of personal things or they feel that the country hasn't done enough to make them feel welcome. My group of best friends at uni are almost all Asian (9 of us altogether)- 3 of us will be ambivalent when England plays our respective countries in the cricket, 6 of us in total will support England in varying ways in the football and the other 3 actively choose not to support England. Those 3 have all had personal experiences (you can guess what these experiences are) where their connection with the country has been tarnished in some way and this has helped form their views on the country.

 

Thank you for those considered responses nisman94. It's very informative to hear things from another perspective.

 

i was really quite impressed with this front page, very powerful.

IS are the most dangerous group of fanatics on the face of the planet at the current time, who are targeting vulnerable and impressionable young muslims. They need to be dispatched quickly and to be completely honest with you I don't think air strikes will do it. I think there need to be boots on the ground. Im not proposing we go in half cocked or anything like that, but we need to put together a concerted force whether it be NATO or UN backed and take these ****ers out.

 

The advertisers ruined an excellent front page.

 

A follow up nisman94.

I see exactly what you're saying re. your responses to my paras. 4 and 5.

Re.your response to my para.2. Like you, I'm sure that the vast majority of Muslims (your spelling will be best!) find ISIL as abhorrent as anyone else and I bet they express that to their friends from all communities in relative privacy rather than from a public platform. Alan Henning's friends from his aid convoy and other Muslim friends in Salford were unstinting in their support and requests for clemency leading up to his murder as were local religious leaders too. But there is also an opportunity for a big statement. How about a major rally in London - British Muslims Against ISIL? That would have the potential to really nail the colours to the mast for all to see. The press could hardly avoid and misinterpret that. It could be organised by Muslim religious and political leaders, and be a Muslim show, although participants from other communities, including the majority one, could be welcomed as well. That way something really positive could come out of this awful mess.

 

New and massively dangerous front opening up around Turkey. The Kurdish Syrian border town of Kobane is under siege. Turkey is standing back, the cynics would say because it wishes the Kurds to lose. There are rumours of support for Islamists within the Turkish security services and attacks by IS supporters on leftists and secularists in Turkey. Deadly clashes between Kurds and security services.

Frankly if we are chatting here this time next year, peace has broken out and we are not calling it WW3 I'll be very happy.

 

You'd have to say it's getting disturbingly more tangible.

 

Time for a regime change in Turkey.

 

At least one gunman has taken several people hostage at a cafe in the Australian city of Sydney
People inside the cafe have been seen holding up a black flag with Arabic writing at the window
Five people have been seen running from the building. It is not clear how many hostages remain inside
Police negotiators say they have established contact with a gunman inside the cafe
Police have cordoned off a large area of Sydney's central business district

 

Why are you writing in the present perfect tense? 'Were seen' not 'have been seen'.

 

That's what you picked up from that?

Hope it's resolved peacefully.

 

Or, alternatively it happened while you were asleep so isn't the breaking news for me as it is for you. Go back to your booing at least you are good at something.

 

Forget the tense - it was a c&p from the BBC website

More of a case how scary this world has become

 

AWW, Cute.

 

Yes. Yes l am.