Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by John Jonny Johnson, May 24, 2023.
This is a beige alert! Neutropolis is under attack!
Live free or don't.
Speaking of teams not liking us Brentford seem to really hate us going by the comments on their forum .
Bit random or some old history going way back ?
No worries. We are all different.
I lived just down the road from Griffin Park in the late 90s and would go to some of their games and they would sing anti Watford songs back then but I was never sure why.
If only we had a Dislike button
Putting the rivalry aside them going up would be a big middle finger to the authorities that nearly killed them off with point reductions etc, seems like the fans got punished for something that was out of their control. The rise from non league and the way the club ownership is now structured is something to admire to be honest. I really hope they dont ever go up when we arent in the PL though. Please win Coventry.
I think if you were around in the 80s when they were a genuine rival for success, playing in the same division for a number of years and not just another local-ish team you would get it more. (Or perhaps the 60s when the real animosity started, I understand, both on and off the pitch.)
There is some history. We had an issue with Southend and Ipswich as well at points in time.
I always thought it was ‘Lawn’ tennis. You live & learn!
Just to add, we also get relegated to the Conference and have so little money that Watford fans' have to volenteer to be corner flag holders at home games. A local dog is the "ball boy" who is told the "fetch!" when it goes out of play. I know i'm joking and it would never happen - but still it's a sad state of affairs that senario is one we can think up during these times.
Have you met the majority of their hideous fans?
lol no it won't.
lol no they won't
Would I dislike someone if they were a good person but they were a Luton fan? No. But do I think their fanbase has a significant proportion of bigoted *****? Yes. Did I want Luton to go into administration and fade into oblivion? Actually, no, because I like having the rivalry. But do I want them to be a success story? No. Does it matter more to me to beat them than it does to beat other teams? Yes. Will I be absolutely gutted if they win on Saturday? Yes, yes, yes.
I think you need to start posting on the conspiraloonacy thread as you seem to be becoming a bit obsessed over this.
For myself, I was underwhelmed by the appointment and also disappointed that the aspects of his FGR side’s play I hoped he’d implement showed no sign of materialising; if anything we seemed to be getting more disjointed rather than less.
I never believed Fuxbury’s ******** for a second and also realised Edwards’ apparent preferred system had been kyboshed by swapping Kiko with Gaspar, something he had no control over. However, trying to deal with that by playing Kamara at RWB was clearly not the solution.
I think he overestimated how far he could trust the players to be sufficiently professional in their approach to getting fit, as they clearly weren’t. For all the ho-ho-ho-ing of your running gag on this subject, coming out of pre-season inadequately prepared is very difficult to undo, and that in my mind is a black mark against him.
Not everyone who thought he was not the right appointment also thought he was ‘out of his depth’; just that he was not the right person to deliver the clear objective of top 2 with the squad he was given.
The fact the 2 subsequent appointments were no good and that he ended up at a club with a clear philosophy and a squad compiled over a few seasons within the required parameters does not mean sacking him was an obviously wrong decision at the time. As the season has panned out I agree we have to hope that Pozzo has finally accepted that resorting to firing head coaches as soon as anything goes wrong is counter-productive.
I’m not a Gino apologist, far from it, nor did I see any real evidence that Edwards could have made the mish-mash of a squad here promotion contenders. The fact he’s taken an existing coherent squad that got into the play-offs last season into them again does not mean he’s proven to be a brilliant manager; it also proves he’s not out of his depth when given much better tools than he received at WFC.
It could be argued he was not up to the task he needed to perform at WFC this season; I accept it could also be argued perhaps no-one is.
These viewpoints do not necessarily need to be binary; it is perfectly possible to believe Edwards was not the correct appointment while at the same time believing Pozzo has 5ucked up again.
To suggest people want L*t*n to fail as some sort of liturgical rite in the Cult Of Gino seems a bit bizarre. It really is as simple as a feeling of hatred for all things sc*mmer.
The corner flag has made so many appearances for Watford over the past decade that it deserves a testimonial and possibly a statue
Do you know what a conspiracy theory actually is? Because it seems you don’t quite understand what they are, where is the conspiracy exactly in giving a manager 10 games before writing him off, only for him to go and create the success we desperately wanted for our deadly rivals instead? I’m pretty sure that’s not what a conspiracy is.
“I think he overestimated how far he could trust the players to be sufficiently professional in their approach to getting fit, as they clearly weren’t. For all the ho-ho-ho-ing of your running gag on this subject, coming out of pre-season inadequately prepared is very difficult to undo, and that in my mind is a black mark against him.”
You would have a point if any of this had any basis in fact, but it’s pure fantasy peddled by a few people like you on an internet forum, you simply repeating it doesn’t make it any more true, to make matters worse subsequent events at both clubs have proven it to be an absolutely laughable opinion. How anyone can continue to peddle it is beyond me. Even Nigel Farage has now admitted Brexit has failed, yet we still have fans that believe this, incredible.
So while we’re on the subject of ‘conspiraloonacy threads’ you ironically have come up with the best one of the lot.
You feeling ok?
Comparing Edwards' time here with his tenure at Luton is not comparing like with like in my opinion. The two clubs have very different set-ups, expectations and separation of power. Despite boasting an impressive record at Luton, it is still unclear how much of that is down to the success of his predecessor, the quality of their pre-season and the players' existing togetherness against his individual ability.
Edwards left us in 10th and we ended up finishing 11th. We didn't play very well in the ten games he managed. He may have improved us as the season went on, but I don't think we would have finished much higher had he stayed.
That is very true, but I think what irk's most of the fanbase so much about all that is the fact we were promised a young hungry manager who be given time to build a side into phillosophy. He may not have done that at Luton correct, and it could be he is just hanging on the coat tails of Shrek's success. Next season will be very telling for Edwards, especially if they don't win tomorow afternoon. Can he rally them for another promotion push? I was not fond of the general football over the eleven games myself, but the point of backing a manager is to give him time to see the problems, make the viable changes and learn from mistakes. It doesn't matter who your are, eleven games is no way near enough time for him especially considering the amount of shirkers we had last season. It's more down to another broken promise of change from the ownership, than Edwards own individual failing as a manager here.
Zero accountability for being vehemently and aggressively wrong.
The words you're searching for are 'I was wrong."
Now you're not:
Err, no. The key phrase was these issues are not binary, as you obviously would accept in discussions of most other topics.
‘Edwards was not right for the job in hand’ and ‘Pozzo’s farked up (again)’are not mutually exclusive viewpoints.
The ‘conspiracy’ comment was aimed at your bizarre suggestion that a lot of people want the sc*m to fail tomorrow as some means of protecting Pozzo from opprobrium rather than the rather more obvious one of simply hating all things connected with them.
The reason why I have expressed my opinion (on an internet forum; whatever next!) that the players were not fit enough was because they were all clearly knackered after about 70 minutes. The creators of this conspiracy theory were my own two eyes.
You have yet to present any argument to categorically prove my opinion (there’s that concept again) as being wrong. The fact that a L*t*n squad already clearly fit enough performed as if they were fit enough for the rest of the season whilst whatever attempts Bilic made to improve fitness had little success (in fact seemed to result in all sorts of over-stress muscle injuries) in no way disproves my opinion that coming out of pre-season unfit is a situation that is extremely difficult to rectify. I know you don’t agree, but you banging on in the way you do makes your opinion (geddit) no more valid than mine.
Nothing you've said is even remotely controversial. We all know there's a 'right man, right place, right time' element to a lot that happens in football. Edwards never looked like the right man, nor was Watford the right place for him. The fact it's not been the right place for anyone for nigh on 4 years now doesn't affect the other two limbs of the equation. He's walked into Luton no doubt wiser after his time at Watford, to a lean, mean and hungry setup and really had to deal with absolutely zero adversity. I bet that little gremlin Jones wasn't even that well-liked by their squad given how quickly he alienated the Southampton players. It's one of those rare moments in football where everything aligns.
I'm serious when I say I believe absolutely nothing Edwards has done at Luton reflects on Watford. Though I get why some are desperate to make that case I suppose.
Or seen their dilapidated disgrace of a ground? Or the disgusting clashing marker pen orange and varicose vein blue they wear?
As you and many others have said, Gino and Co don't listen to the fans and they weren't about to start when there was a few murmurs on social media about Rob Edwards, they made their mind up early doors.
We're all to blame to some extent, those that continued to go to games last season and clap them off the pitch, those that renewed their season tickets this summer, those that spent money to watch via Hive Live, those that spend £60+ on merchandise from the club shop every Summer/Christmas, the fan groups that sit by and do nothing, those that moan about it online but don't do anything about it, all 15,000+ of us that will be there first game of next season.
It's easy to blame other fans but as long as all keep putting money in the club and sit by doing nothing other than typing furiously online, nothing will change.
They obviously listened to the fans who were criticising Edwards for his results and football .
Weren’t many mind you and not sure it was just about results either ..
Yep, I stubbornly refuse to subscribe to the view that RE, tracking at 64 points total when he was sacked, was going to get us promoted.
You seem to stubbornly insist he would.
I also continue to believe he was not the right appointment whilst also agreeing that the decision making in the last 4 years has been catastrophic. Ironically, both the appointment and then hasty sacking of RE could be used as evidence of that.
Absolutely amazing, because of course we were so fit for the rest of the season (with a one month winter break no less) and then Luton go on to be described as actual freaks for how fit they were in the play off semi second leg.
I don’t need to present an argument, because reality has done that for all of us in a way that is so crushingly brutal, nobody could’ve imagined it in their wildest dreams, but by all means keep ploughing on with that tin foil hat of yours.
Edwards basically inherited a readymade team from Jones and all he had to do was not **** it up, which to be fair he managed.
They seem to win very narrow games without being outstanding but know how to get results through their style of play .
And no doubt haven’t had issues with injuries or inconsistent team selection.
Do have to remember they got to the play offs last season so this one isn’t exactly out of the blue .
Compared to Coventry.