I don't think Zinck is Premier League quality, but £5m is certainly not unheard of for a good Championship player even if he isn't exactly young (especially if the team signing him have Premier League money). On reflection agreed that £10m is ambitious, but £5m seems fair to me
My god, not this again! Impact on the club, man! So as not to get down a boring discussion rabbit hole again: I don't think he's ****, I think he's a mostly average Championship player who has shown signs this season that he could be a decent championship player. You think he's better than that. And that's fine.
He is their set piece taker though, is he not? (No, I have not in any way checked whether that argument is supported by the nature of his goals and/or assists...)
He looked absolutely shattered just before he came off last night. The fact he gets subbed pretty much every game after 60-70 mins is a big concern I would think
Kiko Femenia: 26 apps Defender in the Premier League Plays for the 2nd worst team in the league with 33 goals all season 5 assists PZ: 44 apps Attacker in the Championship Plays for the 4th best team in the league with 73 goals all season 7 assists Get Kiko in that number 10 role and he'll tear the championship a new arshhole
No, no desire to go down old roads! I’m just suggesting that by giving him 3/10 last season when he got the most amount of team assists in a team that came 2nd and in just half the time of his teammates…and then consistently calling him ‘bang average’ this season, despite being a regular in a team that finished 4th….that it’s easy to see why some would link you to any suggestions that he’s ‘sh*t’ or something close to.
As stated, plenty of good footballers all over the world come off regularly on 60-70 mins. In an age of 9 subs and 5 able to be used, I doubt it’s much of a concern at all. Or certainly not a huge one as people think. The fact he is still regularly started in the next game suggests as much.
This is where the confusion is. The 3/10 wasn't a mark on his performance last season. It was a judgement on his overall impact on the club, when compared to every other player ever signed by Gino. To get a 3 after just 9 starts isn't bad going, imo. If I was giving him a mark purely on his performance after he arrived it January it would be a 5 or a 6. I've never said he's ****, because I don't think he is.
That’s quite confusing - how can he be marked down against time he wasn’t even at the club? I understand it’s your scoring system but it’s an odd way to score it. I’d have thought every player starts on 6 (average) and the score you give them goes up or down? I’ve never seen a scoring system that starts on 0 and also takes consideration to the time before they even played at the club! Anyway. I guess the confusion is just the angle we are both coming from! But when you say ‘no one has said he’s **** or anywhere near it’, you can see why some might attach you to that kind of comment!
He's not being marked down for time he wasn't at the club? By that way of working I'd be giving Obbi Oulare and Samba Diakite 6/10? Player joins and starts as a zero as they've made zero positive impact on the club. Ighalo would be a zero when he first signed up, but ended up with a 9/10 for playing a huge part in promotion and a successful PL season. Not sure why I'd be attached to that sort of comment as I've never said anything close to it, and have been pretty consistent in the view that (imo) he's an average Championship player.
Well no, they would start on 6 and then quickly decline for doing the square root of nothing in their tiny amount of appearances. So very low scores or even those of zero are fair enough. But Zinckernagel starts on a 6 and then gets the most amount of team assists in half a season, at the very least he stays on a 6 (and subjectively, some would score higher - but I think the vast majority would say 6 is ‘average’). Scoring a 3 seems very unfair to be honest and that’s why, when you have repeatedly said he’s average this season too, I would probably label you as someone who comes across as thinking he’s somewhere ‘near sh*t’ when I read it. You’re saying his impact as a Watford player has been 3/10 - for someone with good numbers last season, okay numbers this season, was bought for free and would turn a nice profit if sold, and has played regularly for 2 teams at the top end of the division he’s played in - I’m really confused how the score is so low but you’re not calling him close to ****! ( I don’t mean any of this personally for the record!)
I agree with your scoring if you're rating their ability. But if you're scoring their contribution to the club then it HAS to start at 0 because they haven't contributed anything yet? If we signed Messi and then he realised he's not gone that far downhill yet and got a loan elsewhere a week later, he'd get a 0 in WT's ratings. Not because he's s*** (I imagine he'd be due at least a 7 in 'ability'!) but because he wouldn't have had any impact for the club on the pitch, which is what's being assessed.
So if a player joins, gets injured and doesn't make an appearance, would they score a 6? But I'm saying, in this system, that I arbitrarily made, he starts on a 0, not a 6. I can see why if you think every player starts at a 6, then a 3 would be a diss. But they don't, so it's not. You're more than welcome to do your own list, and use your own system (don't, it's a waste of time, we've literally signed 5000 players). Imagine a long line of every Watford player signed by Gino, ranked in order of who has had the greatest impact on the club. Zinckernagel, with his 9 starts (and yes, a couple of assists) sadly isn't very high up that list, for me. And again, that's not a slight on him in any way whatsoever. I think that side still goes up without Zinc in the team, so I can't even have him at the level of Guedioura, for example. His contribution at Forest, transfer fee paid and and future transfer fee received have zero impact on his score, which I clarified on the thread. I guess the only other way I can clear your last point up is that I also gave 3/10 scores to Layun and Berghuis. Both objectively good players, who I really liked! But their impact, on the pitch, in a Watford shirt, was worthy of a 3/10, imo. Again, not a slight on their ability, or lack thereof.
He does seem to cover the ground though - maybe a pre-agreed plan to run himself stupid for 70 mins ? As others have pointed out, he seems to always be picked next game so it's not as though he played poorly to earn the subbing.
Having watched him several times, very clearly the plan is for him to lead the press very aggressively for 70 mins rather than pace himself across the full 90.
Yes. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t at a PL club next season. Which is not something I’d say about any of our current midfield.
Garner is worse than Zinckernagel. It was the case with us last season and it's still the case now at Forest. If Forest get promoted and still want to keep Garner as a starting CM and first choice set-piece taker then they will not last very long in the division at all.
If that's the plan then fair enough. Do feel it's strange to have one of your three subs sorted before the game even starts though.
Looking forward to the toxicity he brings to the dressing room when Pozzi refuse to let him leave to Forest
Didn't see a great deal from him today. A few flicks and one touch passes but nothing getting overexcited about.
I don’t think Forest would want him. He’s a luxury player, a little lazy and is only at a Championship level. I’d snap their hand off if they put a bid in for him, but I doubt they will.
I think Zinc would be a bench warmer in the Prem for Forest. That said they will want a bigger squad in the Prem. Can see him going for £3-4m.
Would be good business if we could get around £5m for him. Wouldn't mind if he was in the squad though, could be useful next season
I'm still expecting the Bodo Zinc to turn up but everytime I see him he frustrates me more than anything.
One thing you can’t criticise Zinckernagel for being is lazy. One of the most hardworking players in the Championship. Only Callum O’Hare pressed more than Zinckernagel this season
