I disagree. I see him walking around a little to much. Maybe his best stats come from his first half but he fades dramatically as the game progresses.
You’ve clearly not looked at his stats, he’s one of the hardest working players in the league, factually, not just based on your opinion of what you think you’ve seen based on a few minutes here and there.
That's why he usually gets subbed after 60 mins. At his age he ought to be able to do energetic pressing for 90 unless Forest's fitness regime is no better than ours, if that's possible.
So far we’ve had Zinckernagel being lazy, Tom Lawrence being one of the best midfielders in the Championship, what’s next, Curtis Davies is a poacher?
I’ve never said anything about Tom Lawrence. I do think Zinc is a little lazy. You disagree. That’s fine, but let’s not make things up about what I said.
Must admit I didn’t think I quoted you there — I wasn’t meant to. But Zinckernagel being lazy is a shocker of an opinion
I think people are just confused as to why you think this - the 'eye test' doesn't tell you he is lazy and neither do his metrics? The criticism I understand is his 'engine' (which I think can be negated if his manager is happy to use up a sub on him after 60/70 mins), and that on occasion, he can easily become anonymous or a passenger. But I don't really understand 'lazy' being a trait.
It was just an opinion said in the context of being a luxury player who is Championship level only. It doesn’t need to be explained further. It’s just what I think when I see him play. I don’t really care if no one agrees with that point.
Forest press hard from the start, the front three work really hard and they generally take the lead. It’s not sustainable and Zink often gets sacrificed in the second half when they’re defending the lead. He’s far from lazy and the stats back that up, he’s always top of the running stats even if he doesn’t play the full game. Whenever he’s taken off it’s normally the whole forest team that are struggling.
Need to keep him around. Decent player that can help us throughout the season. Unless we’re offered something silly like £8mil+, no point in selling him.
Thing is, we could easily purchase a younger superior player in his role for even £5m. Josh Bowler, Scott Twine, Callum O’Hare and Illias Chair could all be available for that amount or considerably less. Jed Wallace and Joe Rothwell on frees too. I’m sure you’d be able to find at least half a dozen players from more far-flung sources than the Championship who could offers goals, creativity and pressing from the top of midfield and would be available for £5-8m. Forest might struggle to get Spence or Garner back so might be willing to overpay to keep Zinckernagel but as a thought experiment how would we feel paying that sort of amount for a player who had 13 goal contributions this season (even if he is a very good presser)?
It is. Didn't Matthew Connolly manage it three seasons in a row winning the title in all of them? Then got promoted again two seasons later with us as a runner up.
Three things, will those players actually all be available for around £5m, will we actually have that much to spend this window, and will there be other clubs in for those players? Zinckernagel isn't exactly a Mitrovic at this level, but I still lean towards keeping him, unless we get an offer that we simply can't refuse, or if there is genuine interest from Forest and he really wants to go
I don’t expect that we would spend that amount based on planned departures but I’m just highlighting that Zinckernagel’s replacement cost would be around £5m or less. If we can sell him and reinvest the proceeds then great. If we can’t afford to reinvest the proceeds can we afford to reject a decent bid? I suspect Forest however might conclude they would rather go for Rothwell instead. As for your other point, Chair, Twine would both be £5m or so. Rothwell and Wallace free. O’Hare probably £8m and Bowler £3-5m if I had to guess.
I would think that we would prefer to have him in the squad at the start of July to at least let Edwards look at all player options open to him. Before hawking him around. If before the start of preseason training Forest make a good offer , which probably would include increased salary for him, surely he would want to sign for them and have a pop at the Premier League. Retaining players who would rather be away, in a critical season where the aim must be top six, would be counter productive in my view. Even if the player feels a gap in the squad. Better to take the money and use to plug those gaps.
The problem is as a PL club we bought turds like Kucka and Tufan, so as a championship club the chances of us actually buying any of these players is pretty slim. Toney was only £5m but we couldn’t stretch to that/didn’t think it was worth stretching to that.
Sell him. Heart and head isn’t in it. Zinckernagel said: "Well, it's completely insane. We start the season by losing a lot of matches and then (Steve) Cooper comes in and he changes a little bit and then it has been an absolutely fantastic curve. "We have to celebrate it today and tomorrow, and then I have to go on holiday, and then we take it from there. "I hope agents are at work. I feel like playing in the Premier League. It would be stupid to say anything else."
Can hardly blame him, I’d be more worried if after getting promoted for the second season running he turned round and said “The Premier League isn’t for me, I can’t wait for a third season in the championship playing for the team that didn’t want me”.
Obviously he isn’t going to say that, but have some respect for your current employer regardless of how you feel. Be excited, but he could have at least said, “Obviously I’m contracted to Watford which is a fantastic team, so I need to sit down with them and see what the plan is. Obviously every player dreams of playing in the Premier League and I’m no different, but if Watford want me and see me as a vital piece to the puzzle then I’m committed. If however they are willing to listen to offers for me, then I hope Watford and Forest can come to an agreement. Whichever team I’m playing for next season I’m fully committed.” edit: anyway, now he has shown his hand, I hope we take Forest to the cleaners and get at least £7-8mil for him.
How would him showing his hand serve to inflate the fee. Personally, I think £5-6m would be more than fair when you consider the other players that could be brought in for that amount. It is not like we’re losing a key member of the squad, either way we would need to integrate him and he’s almost 28 too so Forest wouldn’t have much resale value. Last season, only these players left the Championship for fees of more than £5m: Ramsdale, Danjuma, Matheus Pereira, Collins, Armstrong and Olise. We need to be realistic.
replace team with club. That’s what I was getting at. Watford is a fantastic club. Regardless of the crap that we’ve had the endure the last 3 years, we are still a fantastic club. 6 seasons in the Prem in the last decade, a cup final and a semi final, was pushing for Europe before we blew it. What we’ve achieved in the last decade compared to some of the other bigger clubs tells me we’re a fantastic club. It’s a shame it’s gone the way it has, and all that hard work has been undone in the last 3 seasons, but hopefully lessons truly have been learnt by Gino and co. I’m not holding my breath though, my trust is on the floor with them as I think it is most supporters. They have to win that back by making smart, intelligent signings this window and back Edwards. Forest have been out of the Prem for 23 years. Historically bigger than us, but for the last 10 years players would pick us over them easily.
He wants out, he’s made a public come get me plea to Forest. He has 4 years left on his contract. If Forest want him they are going to have to pay what we want. They now have the riches of the Prem, price will automatically go up because of that. Him going public will annoy Gino and co, so they will simply say you can leave when we get x amount.
But just because he wants Forest doesn’t me Forest want him, especially if Forest tweak the system for the PL. Also linked with Gibbs-White this morning who is a far better player.
They’re a bigger club again than us now, financially they’ve hit the jackpot even if they get relegated.
Reports are already stating that we are talking to Forest, so I’m going off that. I think he ends up there. Gibbs-white will have plenty of other options outside of Forest as well.
Yes they are, but my point was for the last 10 years we’ve been “bigger than them.” So he could have easily said Watford is a fantastic club. That is all I’m saying. However he didn’t even mention his current employer in that interview.
