Forget the goal, he was superb throughout. His pressing/link up play is genuinely better than any player in our squad.
None of Sema, Sarr, Cucho and Dennis are relevant comparisons - Zinc has been playing as a 10 for Forest, and generally played as a 10 for us. He doesn't work as a winger in English football. He'd have probably been better than Tufan at the tip of our midfield this season, and possibly Kucka and Cleverley. Seems odd we didn't at least try it at some point.
I don't remember having ever seen him run forward so fast and with such determination before as he did for that goal yesterday.
Sounds like work rate and pressing are some of the things he's really improved on as the season has gone on
We haven’t really played with a ten at all this season, though, have we? Forest play 3-4-1-2 and we play 4-3-3. Kucka and Cleverley have functioned much more like 8s. Anything would have been better than Tufan. I’d have liked Zinckernagel to have played for us this season but I reckon he’d have been stuck on the bench given the quality we have on the wings and the fact that we don’t use a 10.
Forest want to keep him . And he is probably keen to stay there too ! Least he’d be at a settled club with a manager who is there long term
Guess it's amazing what improvements you can see with a settled Head Coach who tailors individual training. Just guessing though.
Agree with this. Based on what we saw last season I really don't think he was ready to play in the middle, certainly not in the PL. I said at the time it would be better for him to play regularly and as it's proven. He now looks more comfortable and confident as a number 10. I don't think he would have gained much from the 4 starts than Sema has been given, rather than the 32 he's made for Forest.
I don’t agree. He’s 27 so we aren’t talking about a youngster who needs development. In terms of the team’s needs it would have been impossible for him to perform worse than Cleverly who has had plenty of starts. We’ve been crying out for a more inventive midfielder rather than Sissoko/Kucka/cleverly. We’ve also had squad options who have been either dreadful (Sema) or purchased simply to oil the gears of Mogi Bayet (Kayembe and Kalu). He would have been an asset and at 27 I would have been happy to sacrifice any marginal acclimatisation benefit from lots of games a league below. Loaning him out has proved a mistake, if only by the dire performances of those we retained or by the utter waste of time the Mogi Bayat winter signings have been (other than to line his pockets).
He is 27, but also it's his first experience playing in a decent standard league. Completely agree we've missed a creative link from midfield. Seems Tufan was the plan there, but that fell completely on its face. Problem should have been addressed in January. I don't think he would have been the difference between relegation and survival, and I think the benefit of having a PZ fully acclimatised to English football for us next season, or the £5m+(?) we'll possibly get from selling him will prove the decision correct.
Agree to disagree. If it’s the fee we are after, then we are back to Pozzo prioritising player trading rather than the needs of the team. Not that he makes any money for us doing his trading anyway.
Agreed. He wouldn't have played in the prem, and if he did, wouldn't have been good enough. Now after a season at NF, he may well be ready to make a real contribution for us next season in the champ .....or a nice fat fee.
That’s the same sort of logic as saying Sarr was worth £40m because he helped get us out of the championship.
There’s a few players that have featured plenty for us this season who many said wouldn’t get many games for us this season. If PZ had stayed and shown in training what he’s shown for Forest this season, I think there’s a fair chance that he’d have seen game time. I do agree however that his loan has probably been beneficial for him as a player - but it’s hasn’t benefitted us as a club this season. And that should ultimately have been the priority. Sadly when it comes to squad-building and recruitment, the needs of Watford for 2021/22 haven’t seemed to be top priority for those in charge.
Another completely bizarre post from you ? It's as though you are desperate to pick a fight with me ? It's not even close to the same logic. I've just said that he will be better placed to help us next season in the champ after playing a season in that league in a side chasing promotion, rather than sitting on our bench in the prem. If he leaves, he's more likely to attract a decent fee after impressing and getting noticed in the champ than warming our bench. Just my views and feel free to disagree with what i post rather than just claim I've said something I haven't. FWIW I don't believe Sarr's value was helped at all by a season in the champ - he was already a first teamer for us in the prem. His value probably peaked after THAT liverpool game.
I don't believe he'd have played as I don't see where they would have played him this season. I don't think he's the same type of player as a Kucka or Cleverley - too attack minded so not sure he'd have been able to take their place. You could say that any player we have loaned out this season hasn't helped our needs this season. As you say it has been beneficial for him as a player and hopefully we will reap that benefit in 22/23.
Kucka and Cleverly have been abysmal. We could have played Rod Thomas and it would have been an improvement.
Zinc's lack of defensive output might have been an issue in the Prem, but asking Sissoko to sit deeper next to Louza, with Zinc in front of them might have worked in some games without us needing to change too much.
I don't understand this theory - we have needed a more attacking minded central player and its quite possible we only haven't played one because we don't have one. We also don't have a defensive midfielder, rather just a bunch of No.8's who all do varying levels of the same thing really. So because we have never played with an out-and-out defensive midfielder, does that mean we don't need one of those either or one wouldn't have played had we had one? Of course not.
Zincs has too much finesse for this team. We need players that can hoof rather than thread clever balls through to attackers. Sell him
It’s not personal to you, I would’ve pulled that comment up no matter the author. It just seems like perverse logic to me, fair enough if you think would’ve contributed literally zero this season, I mean if he’d literally been a traffic cone, no goals, no assists, no important tackles, blocks etc, nothing to change the course of any game he played in, just a onlooker, then fair enough. But if there was a chance he may have chipped in with let’s say, a couple of goals and a couple of assists over the season, then you never know, that might have swung enough games in our favour to keep us up, or at the very least have us in contention for staying up at this point, as opposed to where we are now. But no, it’s better for him to have developed a little bit more for the league below, rather than him having been in a position to have contributed towards us actually avoiding having to be in it in the first place?
I don’t think he would have played and I assume the owners had worked that out before they decided to loan him out. Therefore he wouldn’t have made the odd assist or scored the odd goal that Cleverly and Kucka have. So I think a season in the champ has been the best outcome for both parties. I’ve no problem that we disagree on this.
There’s a lot of holes in this viewpoint though to be fair. And they’ve been pointed out. But you’re just doubling-down rather than admit they could even have been possible. Comes across as you saying that because Gino and his acolytes decided he could go, then by default there’s no way he would have contributed had he stayed.
I fail to believe that any manager would not have looked at the abysmal output of Cleverley and Kucka and thought “we’ll I’ve lost 6 in a row so I might give that bloke who is doing okay in training a go”. Well Hodgson might have, but that’s who he is. Even before we get to their dreadful stamina, those two old duffers should not keep a moderately sized cuff link out of the first XI. It is criminal we have to pay Cleverley and Kucka next season, and self inflicted by our imbecilic owners.
Doucore and Sarr were bought but never played to start, Kalu was bought and then never played. Things can and do change though. There is nothing at all to say if he’d stayed he wouldn’t have played. Why did they buy Kalu? There is no logic to many of the owners decision so you can’t extrapolate them across a completely different 38 games as any means to second guess what part Zinc would or wouldn’t have played.
Well if someone had held a gun to my head and asked me to name the 3 who would have posted replies or they’d blow my head off …I’d have survived . I understand your points chaps and maybe you’re right, we’ll never know. After the season we’ve had anyone who wasn’t a part of it, even Rod Thomas, could be argued to have improved things. I still think I’m right though and hopefully we’ll benefit from a championship ready Zinc next season !
Please show some respect, this is the joint 60th top goal scorer and the joint 18th top assister in the Championship you're talking about here. And he's only played 39 games for the 3rd best team in the league.
