Next Seasons Manager

Had exactly the same reaction. Seems that regardless of the talk about lessons learned, building a long-term approach, Pozzo and Duxbury have absolutely no intention of giving a head coach any control or authority - and may well undermine him. Which means we're destined to continue to make the same mistakes.

A waste of time to even hope for something different. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, or time after time, shame on me.

 

I have given it a great deal of consideration, and have sent the club an email informing them of my decision to rule myself out

 

After your comment pre-season about our defenders being good enough for this season, this is music to my ears…

 

I wouldn't hold your breath on a reply!

 

All I will say is if we take Craig Dawson as an example, it suggests root cause of failure might not actually be players

That is the point I made and make when most of them are continually trashed

Anyway...

There is no point insisting, my mind is made up, I am going to look for other offers

 

It’s been announced at varying levels of formality that QPR and Blackburn will be parting ways with Warburton and Mowbray at the end of the season. I wouldn’t want either but it’s struck me that quite a few sides will or might have vacancies at the end of the season:
(All but) confirmed:
Burnley/Everton
Us
QPR
Blackburn

Possible/likely:
WBA
Stoke
Reading
Birmingham

Some of these teams may represent interesting alternative options to some of the managers mentioned, particularly the domestic ones in L1.

 

It won't make a difference - even a potentially exciting manager would struggle to get a decent tune out of the players we currently have going into next season.

Until there is a fundamental change of perspective from Gino Ponzi/Snott Duxbury, it will be the same old bollox.

They'd most likely be out the door once we around the 7th-10th position in November.

It's just so tedious.

 

Whether you like the idea of Cannavaro or not (and I've been vocal on here last time he was conjectured that I do not) he still effectively represents another punt.

He's never been in the situation we will be before; he's never managed in a genuinely competitive or even semi high-quality league; and the jury cannot possibly be ruled as anything other than utterly exposed to the elements on his managerial abilities. Given, again, that we won't have cheat code Sarr and a financially hamstrung Championship around us (to the same extent) this time, it really would send the message that we can check out any time we like, but we can never leave (The Proper Business Hotel).

 

I certainly share some of your reservations and see your overall point re Cannavaro but how specific are we talking in terms of “never been in this situation before?”

Managed in the Championship? Taken the helm of a relegated PL side seeking to bounce back? Or a relegated side abroad? Managed a team expected to compete?

The trouble is that most of the managers on our list don’t satisfy those requirements in one way or another.
Martin - never really managed a side expected to compete or a relegated side
Martinez - never managed in the championship and actually failed when seeking promotion with relegated Osasuna, missing out on the playoffs.
Struber - never managed a side seeking promotion
There are similar issues with the likes of Liam Manning and Neil Critchley.

Daniel Farke checks all the boxes above but he’s has been woefully inadequate for the PL twice now. And then we saw with Joka at Sheff Utd that simply hiring a manager who has ticked the boxes in the past is no guarantee of anything.

The best managers are adaptable and have skill sets that can apply in most situations. Cannavaro may or may not be such a manager (probably isn’t) but we shouldn’t just rely on whether past performance ticks this limited set of criteria in my opinion.

 

I think I’m at the point now where I don’t really care who the head coach is, just as long as we back him and give him at least a three-year deal. If it’s another head coach coming in on a one-year deal then we’re basically going to do the same thing over n over n over n over n over again. If it’s Cannavaro.. fine, but give him a good contract and standby him

 

Mark Warburton would be decent and he's going to be free in the summer.

 

It’s depressing to think of some of the bad spells that some of the better managers have had, and that if the same thing happened with us they’d never have got through it and out the other side to better things

Klopp took some time to get Liverpool going, despite his early success there is no way Arteta would’ve survived his dodgy spell with us, not a chance in hell Hassenhuttl survives a 9 goal mauling and that particular period with the saints either. Those are just off the top of my head and I’m sure there are better examples, but every single manager has a bad run, the difference being many clubs allow them to work through it.

It wasn’t so bad when we at least assessed a manager on a whole seasons work and then got rid accordingly, but now as soon as they hit any sort of bad patch the trapdoor opens again. It’s hideously unsustainable when you couple it with the fact we only approach out of work managers too. It’s doomed to failure every time.

 

Ivi* was the sliding doors moment. If they'd backed him and broken the entitled, loser mentality we might be in a much better position.

It's like they went all in for Mazzarri and Silva, who didn't succeed for various reasons, and they can no longer trust a coach.

 

In your 'possibles' list I can see why WBA are there, since their promotion challenge turned to dust, but I hadn't heard that Stoke might make a change. I would have thought their expectations this season were lower.

 

I agree in principle with what you're saying, but I still think the recruitment of the right players far outweighs the choice of manager, particularly if that manager doesn't have the full say on transfers which few do. For instance, I'm not sure Farke was "woefully inadequate for the PL" but more that Norwich have had a policy of not attempting to upgrade their good Championship teams to a PL level one.

 

I think Mazzari and Silva were both good attempts by the club to upgrade the manager position, first to install an experienced coach who had been successful at a high level and then to go for a progressive young coach who was expected to develop. Unfortunately, neither of them for different reasons really committed to developing Watford as a team or club for the long term. Since then it's just been firefighting with the bonus that Gracia turned out to be pretty good.

 

I think they were expected to push on and compete under Michael O’Neill but have gone backwards. They have a lot of decent players. That said, he has presided over a resurgence (5 wins in 7) in form that will probably save him.

 

Seems I overestimated Warburton, I thought he was probably the best manager currently working in the Championship but I think that was before Wilder and Cooper were appointed and certainly before the Huddersfield manager proved himself a miracle worker. Seemed he’d built a really good QPR side who at one point looked like challenging Bournemouth for automatic promotion, but they have fallen off the pace badly in recent weeks (Blackburn is a similar story). Or maybe the QPR side is not that good and Warburton has done as much as possible with limited means?

 

I think Warburton has probably taken them as far as he or anyone for that matter could have taken them and is a victim of the inflation of expectation he caused earlier in the season. They only really have two or three top players at the level (Dieng, Willock and arguably Chair) so he’s done well but the drop off since January has been pronounced. He was out of contract and things had gone a bit stale so I think it makes sense all round.

 

Yeah, obviously, I'm not - but it is at the same time pretty relevant to whether it's another Ponzo punt or not.

In Cannavaro's case, we don't have to get particularly specific, because he's only ever managed in China and Saudi Arabia. This wasn't a manifesto for all prospective coaches - I'm clearly commenting on Cannavaro, who is much more removed from any of these criteria than any of the others you include.

Besides, Diego Martinez didn't get Osasuna promoted but he does have experience of lower divisions, and he has actually achieved a promotion; with Sevilla Atletico.

 

Until we change the philosophy of not giving Managers sufficient input in creating a squad with the players the want, to fit their system, then it is flawed from the off. Dopey and Dopier upstairs need to change. Identify the manager, get the manager and support the manger by giving hi the control he wants. Back him and his expertise to achieve the goals agreed. Have confidence in him. You employ a Manager, presumably because they are best qualified to the job ..... well that includes player recruitment, staff, medical, nutrition, fitness etc etc. You cant have Dopey and Dopier and there little band of nodding dogs getting in the way, thinking they know best ..... We all know how it goes - Manager / head coach says to Dopey I want rid of XY and Z, get them new clubs and I want to replace them with ABC and id like DEF as well net spend of £10m and wages will be within budget as well this is what we agreed at my interview ..... Then Dopey says Ok ill speak to head of recruitment and Mogi B to see if we can find players LIKE the profiles of those you requested ..... 6 weeks later we spend £3m on UVWXY and Z and say I know these aren't the players you wanted but these MIGHT do the job, they MIGHT become good.... here are your tools now, go and make it work .... if you don't do it in 3 months its your fault and your sacked ...... If we built houses and needed bricks - Dopey and Dopier would supply straw !!! Unless this mentality at the club changes then it wouldn't matter if you had Guardiola or Klopp - it wouldn't work.

We have an opportunity to completely clear the decks, re-set and start again with a new approach, plan and philosophy ..... we can't keep doing the same things and being surprised when we get the same shambolic results .... move with the times or pack up and move on and let someone come in who will. For what its worth I read that the above is basically the reason why Diego Martinez wont come here ..... to me he is the ideal man, did wonders at Granada with no money, created a squad, a sprit and a style of football - he gave the club an identity and had players performing to their potential and wanting to rn through brick walls for him. From the candidates i've seen he is still my personal choice.

 

Why not Foster? Experienced, ex-international, clearly a great communicator through his funny videos that could help take the pressure off the players, a right ledge, and gets on really well with that bus driver. AND he'll make sure everyone has ketchup before a big game. No brainer.

 

Martinez also got promoted with Granada for what it’s worth. But didn’t really dominate the division - it looked a little like our promotion last season.

 

It’s all irrelevant while Pozzbury are still in place. We can hire whatever head coach we want, nothing ever changes.

For what it’s worth, I’m not convinced Cannavaro has the experience to be handed the keys and given the chance to build something over 2/3 years, but we could hire Pep Guardiola or Jurgen f****** Klopp and still wouldn’t have the foresight and patience to do that so who the f*** even cares.

 

He certainly is.

 

You know what, I don't care who comes in as manager or how great our results are in the first half of next season, but what I do want to see is a team that really looks up for it, gives their all every game, and gives us more exciting moments that get our spirits up, and we go from there.... (Zola era type).
Trouble is there are two key types of young pro footballer these days... 1) flash, arrogant, think they've made it, touches of skill (but no cojones or will to muck in), 2) steady, gutsy, heart on sleeve (but not with the skills to play in the prem).
The third type are basically older, lazy journeymen just wanting a good wage - thats our current level...

 

I completely understand and, of course, share this sentiment - the bit that complicates it, though, is that what you're describing simply won't happen under the wrong/inappropriate head coach.

That energy, effort, commitment, focused style, etc etc is all a byproduct of having a talented coach with a clear vision in the dugout. The exciting moments will obviously come as a consequence of that, and we will need to get a certain amount of wins/success to maintain that kind of momentum - it's almost impossible to sustain during runs of poor results.

Absolutely; we need to change our ethos and attitude to both the coaching role and the dressing room (whether that happens is, of course, highly debatable) but this is why, outside that, the next appointment is a vital one. They'll basically have to be responsible for any and all of the heavy-lifting squad and impact wise that would see us compete.

 

Just seen Tony Mowbray is set to leave Blackburn unless they offer him a last minute contract. I’ve liked Mowbray for a long time and he’s done a decent job at Blackburn, they were an absolute mess when he took over. Would be very happy with him at Watford next year

 

Seems we're all pretty close on what's needed and what's been missing.
I agree since deeney we haven't had a true leader on the pitch, I know there's often a pecking order type of issue but GP would do well to start with bringing in a proper leader/voice to be captain and build around him. A real on pitch leader can bring out the best esp in younger players....