London Bridge

Totally disagree. People are stopping doing things that were originally planned. That's giving in. Then politicians come up with tough-sounding soundbites.

 

Actually they very much are Muslims and it can't be ignored, to dismiss this is negligent of the facts.

I really wish news agencies would stop sharing tweets from politicians and public figures that contain empty, robotic words of condolence. It only helps to create a voyeuristic environment where people are glued to live feeds of the event.

The fact that some politicians had tweeted with the event will still very much underway really shows how little they care, and how much of a vacuous process it really is.

 

But surely the priority is what happened last night

 

Suspension of campaigning should probably be acceptable as a mark of respect for those innocent people who have died.

However, the election campagning should be re-started from first thing tomorrow. We cannot allow these mindless lunitics to disrupt our way of life, and I think that even the unfortunate victims and their families would probably agree with that.

 

Blaming these attacks on Islam is as misinformed as blaming Anders Brevik on Christianity or blaming a murder by a middle class white bloke in Watford on everyone in Watford. Every institution, religious or otherwise, has its extremists who hide behind the label to justify their evil acts. History is, sadly, littered with them and the future will be as well.

Don't you get it that to make crass comments like you have is to play in to the hands of these evil people? It's what they want you to believe in order to spread division and hatred.

Yes, be angry. I'm angry about what happened. But don't scapegoat a billion people for the acts of a few violent cowards who do not represent the views or beliefs of the overwhelming majority.

 

Theresa May says enough is enough. Empty words.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-findings-may-never-be-published-saudi-arabia

 

And she also said things must change. Maybe and we can only hope, that our relationship with the foul Saudis will change.
As the worlds relationship with oil finally winds down things will change dramatically on both sides.
As to the here and now, we really do need the help of the majority of the (peace loving) Muslim community. UK Muslims need to be able to report extremism emanating from Mosques with 100% certainty that it is anonymous

 

The local community reported Salman Albedi to th authorities...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...family-imam-friends-did-nothing-a7757726.html

Seems like MI5 did nothing about it.

Why didn't MI5 do anything? This article is an interesting read...I don't know anything about the reporter, and don't enough about the claims made, but it appears nefarious

http://johnpilger.com/articles/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know

 

This along with IDS's 'cyber companies who operate in the internet' comment today just reinforces that the Government have no idea what they are talking about.

 

No no no, ZZTop said they didn't ignore it when I mentioned it after Manchester. 'How do you know they didn't' he claimed.

The people in charge have no idea what to do about this threat. A combination of cluelessness and stuck behind political correctness.

 

You just don't get it do you.

 

Sorry GD, if ZZ said it's not true, then that is the truth...undeniable and unquestionable.

 

You mean that you don't know anything about John Pilger? He's an Aussie Leftie campaigning journalist who has been going for about 50 years or so, in print and on TV:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pilger

 

I asked the question, as you said. You didn't answer and so I assumed you were jumping to conclusions. So, what should they have done? Put a 6 man 24 hr tail on the guy for ever more on the basis that a relative rang up and said "Abedi said it is ok to be a suicide bomber" (which was apparently one of the reports). There are potentially 20,000 Jihadi's in the UK, 3000 of them are being watched closely. So, instead of pathetic, smarmy judgements from the safety of your keyboard, what should they have done?

Incidentally, there is a rumour that security services could not find any trace of members of the public informing on Abedi. If true, we have to look at the possibility of all five reports having not being made at all, or 5 separate reports were coincidentally lost in the system before getting anywhere, or there is a cover up by MI5.

 

And yet you do? Hmm.

So tell us, if everyone agreed with you what is it you think could/should be done that cannot already be done now?

 

Don't be such a useful fool ZZ, people, including people close to him, have gone on record saying they informed on Abedi.

Anonymous gossip is of no value by comparison and you should be questioning who and for what purpose that gossip is being put around.

 

Yes, and people close to Abedi have also said he was innocent.

 

Were they?
According to reports coming in last night from the intelligence services the perpetrators were not under observation and were not known to authorities.. and ive seen nothing today to contradict that.

Even if they were known how closely can the suggested 3,000 on MI5's watchlist of people of concern be monitored?
Yes the Manchester bomber was known to the intelligence communities but was considered a "peripheral figure" as was the terrorist responsible for the Westminster attack.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rror-attacks-by-jihadis-unable-to-reach-syria

I think there's a tendency for people to find someone to blame.. for not doing their job properly.. because they are scared to think that we really are that vulnerable going about our every day business.


As for the police not doing anything we should remember that they shot dead all 3 of last night's perpetrators within 8 minutes of receiving notice of the attack. They certainly are doing something.

 

Source?

 

So now you are accusing me of lying again, as I have said something that doesn't fit in with your argument.

 

Theresa May has already been to Saudi Arabia this year to sell them more arms. As well as being Home Secretary for 5 years and for voting for the Iraq War I'm wondering what on Earth she means.

That's not to say there is an easy solution, but running down the Police Force and Prison Service can't be it.

 

I've not seen anyone claim Abedi was innocent, so I'm asking you for a source. There was an early indication that he may have been a mule, but that wouldn't make him innocent and no one has said that recently.

If the cap fits and all that.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/father-of-salman-abedi-insists-his-son-is-innocent-6659219/

You should stick to discussing the issue rather than accusing your adversaries of lying.

 

I merely asked you for a source. The fact that his father is in denial hardly suggests that people in any wider sense are claiming his innocence and it has **** all to do anyway with your spreading of shyte tittle tattle from some ex-colleague down the boozer.

Without question the Muslim community informed on Abedi. That does not mean the security services acted improperly or ignored it, but it's certainly worth looking at the lessons that can be learnt. If they are in denial about it that is not a good sign that they will.

 

Have any of you heard of intimidation or cohersion?

It is entirely possible that those that have come out and said that they had previously reported the manchester maniac to the authorities, have been cohersed to do so, though I hasten to add it is just as possible that they may not have been either.

However, you do have to ask why the authorities would deny that this was the case? Other than to save face, which seems unlikely, though of course could be a possibility. Whereas you could possibly more understand that intimidation might have been used to coherse people into making these claims in order to discredit the security forces.

The true answer may never be known, you will just have to decide individually what you think is the more likely scenario.

 

Well, I am sure the informants will be able to supply, times, dates and contacts. After all, it can't be something they regularly do, can it?

...and for you to accept their word "without question", when they have ample reason to make it up, says more about yourself, methinks.

As for the rumour, it certainly wasn't something I heard down the boozer.

 

So where did you hear it?

 

Coerced by whom? With the greatest respect, wtf are you talking about?

 

Killing random innocent people in the holiest month of Ramadan? At a time where every Sunni Muslim is at the mosque praying after Iftar or sleeping after an exhausting 18 hour fast. These people may be attacking in the name of Islam but they're not Muslims in any way shape of form.

Coincidentally these attacks happen just as Corbyn slashed May's majority to two seats. Funny that.

 

Point taken, but the second para is nonsense. Please don't copy everyone else with their airy insinuations.

 

Well I am surprised that someone as knowledgable as you claim to be needs to be told, so I won't insult your intelligence by telling you as I am sure the vast majority of people know exactly WTF I am talking about, as you put it

 

If you are insinuating what I think you are, you are totally out of line and entirely inappropriate, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

It's only a matter of time before these religiously motivated sociopaths drive a car into a school playground .

 

How so? Isn't every other politician using these attacks to fuel their political agenda?