Ivic Out

Vlad will not be sacked after this (unless he has a Pearson moment or something similar).

 

Drawing against City, finally starting to build some momentum and then they make that announcement an hour or two later.

They sound perhaps even worse than us.

 

Normal clubs wait til after a game against City to sack their manager. Just in case.

 

Ivics tactics are all wrong - we are set up wrong every game. We are to rigid, too negative -we do a half press which means any half decent team cuts through us like a hot knife through butter. We have no style of play, no purpose, no character it’s abysmal. There is nothing from the players either which doesn’t help. Defeatist mentality, no form, no confidence and the tactics are a joke. it’s all wrong and there are no signs of improvement. If we want to be printed he needs replacing now - he is either not a good enough coach for this level or his tactics take far too long for players to grasp before they become effective

 

I mean, he's been under pressure the whole time, hasn't he? Rather begs the question, why didn't they just get rid of him in the summer? Would have caused uproar no doubt, even worse than when we got rid of our promotion winning Serb, but surely if Big Sam is to manage them, he's best off given a whole season?

 

Vladimir Ivicii - wake me up when its all over

 

I’m open to the Ivic out perspective, although I’m currently happy for him to stay. What I found most troubling isn’t his tactics but the apparent disconnect between what he wants the team to be doing and what they are doing. (See his comments from tonight’s game: https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/18946886.nn) That’s really bad.

So who would everyone (realistically) want to have come in as a replacement? The only good option is my eyes is Howe, but not sure he’d be interested. So who else would be on the list of the Ivic our camp? He’s only worth getting rid of if the replacement is better.

 

That is a good point. He seems to be very good at identifying the problems, but he seems unable to solve them. He's also throwing the team under the bus a lot. This is becoming regular that he's blaming the side for not doing what he's asking of them.

I just can't see the team responding to him, especially if he's regularly questioning them in his post-match conferences.

 

I don't mind a coach who calls out his players now and then but, **** me, he's doing it every game. If it's not their desire, it's their decisions. It's not the way we're setup, it's the failure of the players to understand what's going on.

From a coach who puts two keepers on the bench two games in a row.

 

Normally we have a **** second half and Ivic blames the players and says it’s not what he told them to do.

Tonight we had an abysmal first half and in fairness we picked it up second half.

Either way something doesn’t add up.

 

So who would people realistically want/expect as a replacement? I think it probably has to be a domestic option after taking a punt on an unknown overseas manager. Howe obviously very desirable but probably holding out for something better. Other ideas? Many other available managers like Danny Cowley or Paul Cook just don't strike me as upgrades.

 

I just can’t see the owners changing the coach. Their reputation is toxic in the media world and I think even they would be paranoid of the criticism if they were to get rid off a coach whose team are so high up in the league. Like it or not, this one is staying.

 

But the replacement will still have to try and make something out of this lot in the squad. We seriously don’t have any stand out players who could turn a game.

 

Why? It's not like we sheepishly took a bold, previously untried risk and got our fingers burned; this is what we do.

Domestic options can be just as ****/are no more a guarantee of success in any English league, and we've had the majority of our recent success under foreign managers who were entirely new to these shores.

 

I broadly agree with this. I think we have developed a trigger-happy reputation that will make it difficult to get in a top coach willing to take on an attractive project in a lower league. Firing Ivic would reinforce that so would really have to pay off. It's not yet coming together, so I'm open to him being removed for the right replacement, but just can't see that person being available/willing to join.

I normally don't disagree but were we to replace Ivic in the next few weeks, we would really need someone to come in and hit the ground running. So its not so much a question of quality as adaptability. This person won't have a pre-season or 5-10 games to get the system up to speed. That, I believe, points to someone with some familiarity of the league (even as a player - Valerien Ismael is off to a superb start at Barnsley).

Also, which foreign managers with a particularly appealing track record - especially those still in a current job - want to jump ship and move their family to a new country for a job where none of the last three coaches have lasted half a season and the most recent overseas appointee was sacked with the club towards the top of the table in his first season in England.

 

I think, to be honest, most coaches will back themselves to be the one who makes the difference/succeeds where others have failed, and you could apply the same logic to Ivic when he signed, in a 'why would he come here' sense - it's part of their make-up and how they succeed, if indeed they do.

In terms of coming in and hitting the ground running, that's basically exactly what the Joka did, and he had no experience other than two unsuccessful years as a bit-part player at Chelsea in the Prem. I just don't really see what it is that makes the football so arcane and otherworldly in England compared to anywhere else that means it requires more than the talent and intelligence that a good manager would bring, regardless of nationality or country experience.

 

It took Joka two months and 8 games (2W,2D,4L) to bed in. I suspect that isn't the sort of impact we're looking for if we parted ways with Ivic. He also had an international break at the start of his tenure which is (or was then, with the few international players in the squad) akin to a brief pre-season, allowing the manager to build the team in their image a little.

I think Nuno is the only other foreign managers without prior English football experience to achieve promotion from the championship in their first season, and he had a full pre-season. Joka is the only foreign manager to have come in and hit the ground running and be promoted after assuming the role during the season. Not sure how much you can extrapolate for which is quite literally an exceptional achievement.

Either way it's clear that while some want to see the back of Ivic, it is not clear that there are many managers out there who would both want to come and improve both results and performances.

 

If we are not going to get rid of him we need to seriously back him in the transfer window. This is not a squad he assembled and if the board just do their usual and do nothing drastic you might as well have Mr Blobby in charge or get Gino to pick the team himself

 

Just a reminder that there were an awful lot of nauses on here that were genuinely predicting successive relegations at the start of the season so by your book he’s doing a great job.

 

What? I can think of only one person who predicted relegation. “An awful lot of names on here predicting relegation” is just making things up I’m afraid.

 

I agree it doesn't add up.
I draw a small comparison with my own situation.
One of the coaches at the club is stealing a living.
The committee asked me about him two years ago,I said he was a liability and needed to improve or be replaced.
They have failed to do so but given me the task of 'performance managing' him out.
Perhaps Ivic is, by constantly digging out the players,making a veiled reference to Gino etc to give him a more balanced squad?
If he is being compromised by an unbalanced group and not having the players he asked for,which we know to be true,it's his only right of reply.
Not a lot else makes sense as to why we are constantly so inert.
Run forward,pass sideways,run forward, pass back,kick long,lose possession or just lose it at stage one.
Almost very team we have played has shown more tempo and creativity than us. That is alarming.

 

I don’t like the guy, I think another manager could get us playing far more offensively and picking up more points especially away from home.

Last night showed me it’s not all his fault though. Brentford went down to 10 men, yet because they’ve got a forward who has pace and power they were still a constant menace and threat.

We had 11 men in the first half with Troy completely isolated... because he’s so unbelievably slow he carries absolutely zero threat To the defenders. The opposition can push-up and not worry about him in the slightest.

Without a forward that actually has a bit of pace to worry the opposition then any manger will struggle with us, it’s absolutely criminal that our forward line is what it is, it’s absolutely criminal a through ball to our forward just isn’t an attacking option for us.

And don’t get me started on that absolutely rancid midfield three we had out there yesterday.

 

Usual COG behaviour. It'll all be our fault soon.

 

He could certainly be doing this with his post match comments. It's more difficult to see that he's setting us up to be deliberately boring and defensive to make a point. That seems to be his previous style and he doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't want to win.

When the transfer window opens, we had better have the signings he wants / needs ready and waiting.

Much as his style baffles me, he has been given an unbalanced squad which is notoriously full of bottle jobs and wasters that a series of manager's have failed to get the best out of.

I wonder if Troy always gets picked as the others are mainly mute, cacking themselves or disinterested and he shows character, which is lacking.

The bloke from Football Manager in the studio yesterday said that he went to a recent game with no fans, where the opposition defence were constantly talking to each other. The Watford defence were largely silent, which speaks volumes.

I just don't see any manger getting anything out of a lot of the squad. I'd rather stick with Vlad, who seems to be trying to force Gino's hand.

How is performance managing the crap coach going?

 

I don't need reminding of things that largely did not happen.

 

That's fine, but my point is that I don't see how a British manager is magically going to negate the need for any of that kind of bedding in period or, indeed, the brief pre-season that a foreign manager would require.

We should be looking at a manager's ability to come in and implement change quickly, tied in with their general skill to assess that, rather than automatically crediting them with being capable of that solely for being British.

 

The OGS of the championship

 

They assumed a heavy defeat and the media team had all the press releases spellchecked and ready to go. The draw was probably a huge irritation to the club.

 

A good phrase....."just doing enough to keep us above the crap enough to be sacked line". I may well pinch that.....lol

I believe Ivic will have until Swansea. Then there will be a natural break with the FA Cup game disrupting league fixtures. We'd have played everyone once by then as well. If he is to go, it will be then I'm sure.

There has been a lot of mitigating circumstances for Ivic and this can act in his defence. However, I feel results have kept him away from intense pressure, but we all know the performances have been well short of acceptable. I'd say he's been lucky rather than good to have attained 34 points so far.

The next four games are tough. Three away and the home match against the league leaders (if they get at least a point tonight). If we continue to play badly, or get under 8 points from those 4 games I think he'll probably go.

 

You're right. The ones that thought the transfer window was so bad the only direction the club was going was down should be saying exactly that.

 

Again totally agree. Our midfield in the last 2 seasons has been our strength. Doucs, Capoue, Hughes, Pereyra (on the odd occasion) and even with that we got relegated as the other parts of the team were so substandard. Now just look at our midfield. No enforcer, no creator, no ability to beat a man. Just weak. Being unable to shift TD and therefore unable to buy a replacement is extremely unfortunate. Genuinely think we would have gone for Toney if we'd moved Troy on and would have been able to offer a better deal than Brentford.

 

Indeed. Performaces have been sackworthy for some time, but with the win at Brum and the point yesterday, he's always just floating above the tipping point whereby the trigger would get pulled.

The problem is, we're still sliding too far away from autos and even look like if results start to match performances (say our number of shots per game get rewarded with the zero goals they deserve) then we could easily have a bad run of 5-6 games which sees us slip out of contention.

I said at the start that Ivic would walk, but it seems to me he's playing a game. He hates the squad he's got, so he prefers to make us diabolical to watch and put 2 keepers on the bench. I am sure he wants to be sacked. He must be furious that we keep nicking these points to keep him here and spoil his chance of 5 month's gardening leave with compo.

 

Why would Ivic want to be sacked? There is nothing to keep him here, he can walk away if he wants to.

 

Time for Pozzo to roll out the red carpet for Bilic