Duxbury Out

Careful for what you wish for. We might stay in the Prem while they're here and once they leave we could go back to being a lower midtable Championship club or worse for many years to come.

 

In the grand scheme I suppose not huge. Its just symptomatic of the dreadful culture that pollutes our club. I honestly can’t stand the Pozzos. I feel far less about my club than when I was following us home and away when we were potless under Kenny Jackett when Devon White was up front. I can’t stand the owners. I can’t stand 70% of the players. And I can’t stand some of our idiot fans who clap like seals even as we don’t put any effort in. I’d take honest league 1 football over this disgrace (and they are bankrupting us into the bargain due to their incompetence). Duxbury will grin, tell half truths and pocket his £800k per year. Meanwhile after we sell Sarr we have one decent player left with value (JP). What mugs our fans are.

 

Bring it on. Anything to get them out.

 

Well I don't agree with all of that, but I can understand you feeling that way and you've explained your stance on things well.

 

I am so sad about it all. A season ticket holder who probably won’t bother going to Man Utd at home because the **** who plays in goal for us will actively put United fans in our end.

 

I’m not convinced it’s symptomatic of anything really. They’ve done plenty of classy stuff for GT (both before and after his passing), Elton and invited a whole host of former players back, plus plenty of other noteworthy causes. Luther used to work for them too on the hospitality side. I’ve no idea why that went **** up and it’s sad they’ve seemingly fallen out. I can respect why that would be seen a far bigger issue by fans of a certain age though.

And more broadly I fear you’re simply taking a truck load of the ills of modern football and dropping them at Pozzo’s doorstep. I’m sure you’re just venting but, if not, I’d genuinely say step away for a bit and see if some time away helps at all.

 

That’s fine if the enjoyment and sense of pride in the team comes back.

 

Fine with me. Give me Scunthorpe away with a less talented bunch over that crap I watched on Saturday.

 

There could still be some enjoyment and sense of pride this season if we stay up, and I'd take that over finishing 14th-19th in the Championship any day, as long as it isn't a Mazzarri-style season (but that's looking unlikely). There have been some instances of this this year, albeit admittedly few and far between this season - the great atmosphere that accompanied our opening day win over Villa, the moment against Newcastle when we thought King had broken his duck, the fighting spirit the team showed at Spurs despite losing 1-0, and the brilliant run to promotion which sadly none of us were able to see live.

While I'm not accusing anyone of being fickle, it does seem the opinion towards the board changes like the weather - first the feeling that they'd done much to put things right by bouncing back at the first attempt and they were learning from their mistakes, then the gloom returned some weeks later when it seemed the squad wasn't being strengthened nearly enough, then people were giving A or high B grades to the transfer window when we finally got rid of high earners and minimal contributors like Deeney and Gray et al and signed what looked like good midfielders and attackers on paper, then the mood soured after the transfer window closed and we didn't sign a centre back and it turned out we'd let Chalobah go for free, and now it seems things have turned full circle and people are just as vocal in their criticism as they were when we were relegated and when we were looking unlikely to get promoted in February. Hopefully we'll see a swing back in favour if we stay up, depending on the manner of it?

 

In afraid it's even bleaker than that. I guess you didn't get the memo that the jury is back: JP is shyt.

 

As long as we're not constantly on the brink of administration, as much as I think most of us would agree that being an average Championship side is preferable to being an embarrassment in the Prem, I don't want us to risk becoming a Bolton or a Portsmouth

 

My dad was there. Can't have been that exclusive.

 

Some people just like to moan about everything and won’t be happy unless we are a safe mid table prem team. Moaning on a football forum is just a release.

 

Would that be so bad? Is this privilege of languishing in the Prem, with players who have no love for the club at all and a hierarchy disconnected from the fans, really all it's cracked up to be?

We had a good ride during the early pozzo regime. Getting all the loans in from a Udinese team in their pomp and seeing some cracking football, but I have to say, those two early champ seasons were far more enjoyable than many of the prem seasons. The cup final season, up until the drop off at the end was great.

The novelty of seeing us play against the best has worn off. We can't compete and aren't seemingly even trying now.

Meanwhile, we don't develop players here at all. Even the few younger signings we make seen to be handled appallingly, with poorly selected loans and bad management.

There's little to enjoy apart from the false idol of being in the premier league IMO.

 

That's exactly why I come on here. My family and friends are bored of listening to my whinging so you lot have to read it on here instead.

 

Definitely. At matches I try to always get behind the team. On here I can moan about Pozzo all day and get it out of the system. That said we wouldn’t need to be a mid table premier league team for my frustrations with the ownership to disappear.

 

I don’t disagree that there are things to moan about, but people don’t tend to set the realistic bar on expectations you say you would. Surviving below mid-table every year would soon enough have people moaning simply because that is a lot of defeats and defeats are rarely pretty. Expectations get raised and that’s a sign of success.

 

I think if you only want to hear incessant positives there are a couple of podcasts I can recommend for you instead….

 

Harsh.

 

I will always prefer being in the PL, purely because of the sporting achievement of first getting promoted and then playing at the highest level we can. However it doesn't bother me unduly which division we are in from the point of view of going to watch games, which is the main point of it all for me.

My main gripe about the Pozzo era, now that they have been around for nearly a decade, is the lack of young players, whether more local or otherwise, coming through to play in the first team. There has been such a dearth of them over a long period now that it feels like a deliberate policy, rather than bad luck.

 

I’d rather stick lighted matches under my fingernails.

 

But here’s the thing - achieving what you say in the first part of your post would of course be nice. But can you honestly shake the feeling that we’d be achieving it with a manager who will be gone 6 months later and a squad of players who aren’t really invested in the club and are just passing through? We have a squad. We don’t have a team. And there’s nothing about this bunch of players that tells me that’s going to change anytime soon. We have an owner who refuses to communicate with the fans who pay good money to follow the club all over the country and line his pockets and a fanbase who are largely happy to be slaves to whatever actions the club and its players take. We have no homegrown players and no youth development to speak of.

There seems to be a belief that we either have Championship football and a squad that really cares - or we have a PL survival fighting team with a squad full of mercenaries. But when we first came up under the Pozzo’s, we had a squad who had spirit and a togetherness we don’t have now. And nothing I have seen in recent seasons tells me we are going in the right direction to get that back. For me, being in the PL has actually been a financially-induced cancer that has spread through the club and survival has been placed above things that make you proud to support the club.

I am not saying they haven’t done good things - they have shown a willingness to respect some of our history and keep it going, I recognise that.

I could never switch off and not care at all - or go and support someone else. But I do find myself increasingly apathetic to both winning or losing when we play. Because to me, it feels like those at the club have the same attitude.

 

Been banging this drum for years. Every excuse under the sun given on here for the lack of any youth system or progression. Every club loves a young player coming through. It keeps the connect between the fans and the club.

We have none, will have none. I have no confidence in them bringing through Baah. I guarantee he’ll be in the ‘was never good enough’ pile to the podcasters and the excuse makers in the end. Like all the others.

 

What gets me down the most is that we’ve let the attitude seep into the club that we can’t possible get a result from the big boys so we shouldn’t even bother.

I can’t get my head round our attitude on Saturday because we actually lost 5-0, I mean, what is the worst that could’ve happened if we actually had a bit of a go? Showed them a lot less respect?

These games are generally considered a ‘free hit’ well how can they ever be a free hit of you don’t even attempt to hit the opposition, but instead meekly lay down in front of them. From a professional point of view our players have been made a laughing stock across then world because of Saturday, so well done, your approach was clearly better than the alternative were you probably still lose, but at least maintain your dignity and get respect instead of unilateral ridicule.

I think that attitude can only be because of the high turnover of managers, which has left a general feeling across any given playing squad that always outlasts the next manager through the door.

 

Saturday, in isolation, to me was just a case of players not invested in the shape/lineup and conceding so early. I imagine a lot of the pre-game talk would have been about getting a foothold in the game and building from there. But they blew it so early and it brought all the mental fragilities to the fore.

 

Unless it was down to Luther who he invited?

It doesn’t look great but it’s not inconceivable no one was invited. That said, it’s par for the course under this ownership and they really need to put this strange bad feeling between them and Luther to bed.

But Brimson is hardly a realisable source either. The guy is a prat.

 

I get the notion that developing young players strengthens the bond between supporters and the team but I do think it's also a huge red herring.

Who was the last academy product that was genuinely good enough to play at this level? Jadon Sancho, probably, and he was pinched by Manchester City when he was still very young. Sean Murray before that is the only player in more than a decade who has been anything like good enough and his career has taken him to Dundalk. Before that, Ashley Young, who was sold on very early for a big profit.

And in the years before that? I can remember over-the-top hype about all sorts of players – Jamie Hand, Gary Fisken, Anthony McNamee – none of them remotely good enough. Lloyd Doyley – a club legend who proves the exception to the rule, but not really Premier League quality, even at his peak.

Of course, the legacy of the late 1970s and 1980s is that Graham Taylor placed a huge emphasis on the importance of developing young players. Tom Walley and his scouts went far and wide to find players. They picked up people who'd been discarded by the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham and QPR. They brought in kids from the north-east and Wales. And many of them made a big impact on the first team. But those days are over. If the aim is to develop players capable of playing in the Premier League we're talking about perhaps one per generation of intake. The rest will, logically, find their level lower down the divisions.

 

But we support the club rather than just the first team no? Irrespective of how many break through to the first team, we at least always used to put effort and time into our youth setup. Harefield was something to genuinely be proud of and was the envy of many. But this ownership ripped that up and applied for low-grade academy status. That’s part of having pride in the ‘club’ and not just focussing on the immediate first team.

It’s not a huge part of why I’m disillusioned with this ownership. And I do understand the current drawbacks of the academy system in England how it’s slanted horribly in favour of the big clubs. But I’ve never agreed that that’s a big enough reason not to try.

And you are getting bogged down once again by saying ‘these guys are not PL quality’. But the argument has been put that we want a team to be proud of, who in turn are proud to be playing in the Watford shirt. If it just so happens that we aren’t in the PL to get that, then for many of us, it’s a case of so be it.

 

It’s true Crystal Palace could have handled it far better. Buying a player they have no intention of using except in a injury crisis, was shameful.

 

It’s really people just upset about the results. If we had won 3 drawn 3 and lost 2, I expect the mood would be better.

what does surprise me is people passing over all the things previous owners have done.

Even Elton wanted to remove the club from Vicarage Road, and scored a horrific own goal with Bassett.

Jack Petchey making millions by selling back the loans Elton actually made. Petchey the only owner to make money out of the club.

I will give the lot who nearly bankrupted the club after the ITV deal collapsed and the income disappeared overnight a free pass, because I think they were naive and unfortunate and in other circumstances may have really made something from their enthusiasm for Watford.

Or the Simpson regime, actively refusing to interview Luther for the managers vacancy after he actively applied for the job. His financial acumen was also questionable. Recruitment not fab either.

But the Bassini salad boys shenanigans meant that the current owners had a huge amount to sort our. Finances, training facilities, stadium, squad, etc.

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what many have posted but although this season looks like it will be a struggle can anybody honestly say they thought it wouldn't be? We've basically spent sod all although the lack of defensive recruitments is dreadful. I believe this forum was about for a few years before The Pozzo's took over so would be interesting to see what people were saying back then. I see the comment a few times that they would rather see us in a lower league with players who cared. With the exception of a select few, these players don't exist. It is a job that pays the bills and that's it. They don't support the club. I've been to many games over the years where fans have said the payers should give us our money back or that they don't care. It normally happens surprisingly enough when the team is struggling. I had a quick look at the season 96/97 when we were in League 1 (somebody mentioned they would prefer that to where we are now) and finished mid table. We lost at Stockport, Wrexham, Chesterfield. Can anybody honestly say they watched that season and thought players would run through brick walls for the club. There are one or two that would but I certainly would not want to return to seasons like that just because a player or two gave a sh1t.
I understand people frustrations with Gino and Duxberry (I can't stand him) but looking back at those times reminds me why I would rather be where we are now than when we were then and certainly would not want to return even if every player was diehard Watford fan
Date Opponent Venue Result Attendance Scorers
17 August 1996 Bournemouth A 2–1 7,672 Connolly, White
24 August 1996 Millwall H 0–2 9,495
27 August 1996 Plymouth Argyle H 0–2 7,349
31 August 1996 Crewe Alexandra A 2–0 3,655 Palmer, Mooney
7 September 1996 Stockport County H 1–0 7,208 Mooney (pen)
10 September 1996 Notts County A 3–2 3,660 Mooney (2), Andrews
14 September 1996 Bristol Rovers A 1–0 6,276 White
21 September 1996 Peterborough United H 0–0 12,007
28 September 1996 Shrewsbury Town A 0–1 3,655
1 October 1996 Preston North End H 1–0 6,434 Palmer
5 October 1996 York City A 2–1 5,232 Andrews, Penrice
12 October 1996 Wrexham H 1–1 8,441 Mooney (pen)
15 October 1996 Burnley H 2–2 6,450 Andrews, R Johnson
19 October 1996 Bury A 1–1 4,092 Andrews
26 October 1996 Blackpool A 1–1 6,072 Mooney
29 October 1996 Luton Town H 1–1 14,109 Bazeley
2 November 1996 Brentford H 2–0 11,448 Gibbs, Mooney
9 November 1996 Rotherham United A 0–0 3,619
19 November 1996 Wycombe Wanderers H 1–0 7,657 Connolly
30 November 1996 Blackpool H 2–2 12,017 Millen, Noel-Williams
3 December 1996 Bristol City A 1–1 9,097 Noel-Williams
14 December 1996 Walsall H 1–1 3,674 R Johnson
21 December 1996 Gillingham H 0–0 7,809
26 December 1996 Notts County H 0–0 9,065
18 January 1997 Preston North End A 1–1 8,735 Mooney
27 January 1997 Luton Town A 0–0 7,428
1 February 1997 Rotherham United H 2–0 10,657 Bazeley, Slater
8 February 1997 Brentford A 1–1 8,679 Scott
22 February 1997 Wycombe Wanderers A 0–0 8,438
25 February 1997 Shrewsbury Town H 2–0 6,378 Phillips, Bazeley
1 March 1997 Bristol City H 3–0 8,539 Phillips (3)
4 March 1997 Peterborough United A 1–2 4,200 Mooney
8 March 1997 Gillingham A 1–3 7,385 Scott
15 March 1997 Walsall H 1–0 7,818 Mooney
18 March 1997 Bristol Rovers H 1–0 6,139 Mooney
22 March 1997 Millwall A 1–0 8,713 Mooney
29 March 1997 Bournemouth H 0–1 10,019
31 March 1997 Plymouth Argyle A 0–0 6,836
5 April 1997 Crewe Alexandra H 0–1 12,441
8 April 1997 Chesterfield A 0–0 4,258
12 April 1997 York City H 4–0 7,645 Ramage (2), Mooney, Easton
14 April 1997 Stockport County A 0–1 7,164
19 April 1997 Wrexham A 1–3 3,437 Ramage
24 April 1997 Chesterfield H 0–2 6,411
26 April 1997 Bury H 0–0 9,017
3 May 1997 Burnley A 1–4 8,269 Millen