Covid: Uk’s ‘worst Ever’ Public Health Failing

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by Moose, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    ***fixed***
     
    Smudger likes this.
  2. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Say what you like about Harold Shipman, he saved far more lives than he took.
     
    lm_wfc and Arakel like this.
  3. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Aside from the funding the government can claim little credit for the vaccine development or rollout. That is down to the virologists and health care professionals and organizers. Indeed people volunteering their time. From those at trials to those at centres helping out.

    Countless times the government has ignored scientific advice in favour of the rantings of their backbench sceptics and while lauding the NHS has often provided as we have found out those on the front line with ineffective PPE. That in itself needs a looking at. Incestuous deals and hardly what one can call value for money. Johnson may be alright for a giggle and soundbite which seems what most modern politicians are capable of. Logic, deep thought and rationality seem to be inordinately lacking. He should not be allowed to run the proverbial whelk stall let along be running a government.

    Since63 makes the relevant points. We are extraordinarily underprepared for any serious catastrophe or disaster despite fair warning from the relevant bodies.

    The government talks a good game as with climate change but it's actions paint a different picture when it suits them to kow tow to their friends in industry, old chums in a nation which is one of the worst at protecting the natural environment. Or tackling issues like obesity. Money is the main concern as with the pandemic all consuming.
     
  4. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    OK, so you didn't read the quote that specifically praises administration of the whole roll out.

    There is an absolute desperation on here for the government to be useless. Good thing the report disagrees with that point of view.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  5. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    The one thing they actually deliver on.
    In spades.
     
    Bwood_Horn and Moose like this.
  6. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Absolutely. You can always rely on the forum to blame the Government and Brexit, even for the Global weather.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  7. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    There's still the narrative that de Pfeffel's had a 'good pandemic'. I was listening to Matt Forde's Political Party Podcast (with Dr Paul Williams - who 'lost' Hartlepool to the Tories in May). He was working on a local hospital's covid ward whilst campaigning and was told time and time again what a good job de Pfeffel had done handling the outbreak...
     
  8. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Whether you think the mistakes were "understandable" or not would seem to depend on your existing party loyalties.

    I'm not sure if it could be described as a "good pandemic" for Johnson but, from a political point of view, I don't think it's done him any harm.

    The Tories certainly seem to be keeping their solid base and lead in the opinion polls.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  9. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    There is a blind Brexit loyalty that will take god knows what to shift and almost no comeback from the newspapers that support the Government. They reassure its supporters that nothing is wrong by simply moving on from the report after the most fleeting of glances.
     
  10. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Was it Mark Twain who said something like it's easier for someone to be fooled than it is for them to admit that they have been fooled?

    I think that is very apt when it comes to Brexit and politics in general tbh.

    Edit: The actual quote is:

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.'
     
    Moose likes this.
  11. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    It was seen a majority of the good people of Hartlepool as "...a success...". Dr Williams he had to stand there repeatedly listening to this while campaigning and then return to his PPE lacking ward, filled with victims of the government's murderous herd immunity 'strategy'...
     
  12. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    The reality of modern politics is that people will believe those that are telling them what they want to hear.

    It doesn't matter if one is a medical expert and the other is a layman, shock jock or newspaper editor.

    We have had enough of experts.
     
    Since63 likes this.
  13. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    It was somewhat ironic then for Michael Gove to find himself pursued down the street yesterday by people who agree most wholeheartedly with his dismissal of experts. Reap and sow etc.
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  14. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Err, OK. Have to take your word on that.
     
  15. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    That's always been the case. It's just that until recently, there was no easy way for the manipulators, the crazies and the liars to get an audience. The best they could do was the proverbial soapbox on a street corner. By contrast, the fifth estate, a critical pillar of government, ensured credible information reached the population.

    With the arrival of social media, any lunatic can spout their insanity to the world with zero evidence and gain an audience, and search engines give people a way to find content reaffirming the conclusion they've already drawn. The phenomenon of how quickly Youtube can take you down an extremist rabbit hole with only a few clicks on videos has been widely documented.

    We really should be entering an information renaissance. Instead we're regressing because a good wedge of the population of the world have zero critical thinking skills, and view politics as a team sport.

    Misinformation and propaganda works, and it's impossible to stop it spreading now.
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  16. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Don't you mean the fourth estate?
     
  17. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Ugh. Yes. Brain is half asleep this morning. :)
     
    Keighley likes this.
  18. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    And don't forget to bother recycling your plastic. Waste of time according the genius we have running the country. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Once again it's the "I think you'll find there's a little bit more to it than that..." argument.

    The PET bottles are fairly recyclable. The things that cause the issues are adequate washing of them and contamination by the labels (paper/different polymer) and the caps (different polymers). I did ask a while ago for one of the Norwegian based 'Orns if they could sent me a photo of local PET bottles (all of the bottles, caps and labels have to be from the same material) in a store to see if they looked any different....

    The trouble with any plastic/polymer recycling as that with it's very energy intensive and has quite large water requirements.
     
  20. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

  21. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    After Jacob Rees-Mogg’s asinine comment that MPs didn’t need to wear masks because they know each other (imagine what a Government that consistently took Covid seriously might achieve) staff in the HoC will now be required to wear masks.

    But not MPs. That old Tory chestnut personal choice.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59056316
     
    352 likes this.
  22. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Just to point out that the mask mandate applies to all employees of the Commons Authorities, without exception. MPs are not being favoured above other employees.

    Read the article to find out the truth of the situation, rather than rely on a post that only reflects the headlines. Or don't; ignorance is a basic human right, and I fully support a person's choice to remain so. In deed, I enjoy the spoils of peope making such a choice.
     
  23. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Well, it's not because of personal choice that they aren't being required to wear them but because they are not employees of the HoC.
     
    HenryHooter likes this.
  24. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Yes. It says that in the article. :rolleyes:

    MPs continue to have the personal choice to wear them or not. They could be required, for example by their parties (the opposition do) or other Parliamentary bodies (or the Speaker) to do so. Or simply through a desire to set a good example. But not it appears by the Health Secretary.
     
  25. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Could they? Which parliamentary bodies? I'm not sure the Speaker has the power to compel them any more than the VC of our university has the power to compel students. I suppose it could be viewed as contempt of Parliament not to wear one but that would seem very drastic.

    I'd say it is a matter of party leadership/discipline but the fact that staff in the HoC are compelled to wear them is really a different point because the source of authority is different.
     
  26. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    It wouldn’t be beyond the wit of the Government to have discussed this with the HOC and made a joint statement.

    You are fully aware that this is laissez-faire Government in action.
     
  27. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Well, it wouldn't be the government, it would be all parties. But yes - I guess that could have happened.
     
  28. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Yay, Jamaica night at the conference!!
    [​IMG]

    Did someone say virtue signalling?

    Did somone say hypocrisy?

    Did someone say double standards?

    Today is a good day to be ignoring the facts.

    But good luck to them, they look like they are enjoying themselves.

    PS Dawn Butler has a genuinely lovely smile.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
    Lloyd and iamofwfc like this.
  29. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Glad you listened to Hooter and went back and read it.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
  30. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    The joke around our Manchester office at the time was 'don't worry, I'm (not) a doctor'.
     
  31. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    No it's not. Mandatory by that date for all frontline staff which is a very different thing.

    And the media keep mentioning 80-90,ooo NHS 'workers' are unvaccinated - where do they get this figure from...
     
  32. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Yes, frontline staff.

    The figure may not be so wrong, The NHS has at least 1.3m staff as well as those who are outsourced, but in the building.

    With 10% of the population unvaccinated those figures are quite possible. Also quite possible the numbers you quote are estimated, include social care and also quite possible the Government briefed them as it did recently when letting everyone know the numbers of people infected in hospital, presumably in preparation for this announcement.
     
  33. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    I got it!!

    Not sure when, probably a trip I made to London a week and a half ago.

    Had an on and off cold for weeks, so didn't think anything of it, but going into work on Monday I noticed I had no smelll or taste (purple flares and brown shoes is pretty tasteless even for me), so did social distancing and barrier protection going into the building, did a local PCR and went home and arranged a community PCR test (results in hours rather than days) an hour later, which came back positive.

    Double jabbed, so quite relaxed about it, and if it wasn't for the loss of taste I would probably have just done my regular PCR and been at work with a bit of a sniffle until this morning, when my local test came back positive.

    Hold back with your sympathy! I am not feeling ill at all. Seems I am lucky, as other members of my family were more severely affected with symptoms going on for weeks.

    Unfortunately for the forum, this means I am going to be hanging around with nothing much to do until next thursday...
     
    iamofwfc likes this.

Share This Page