Academy And Under-23s

Discussion in 'The Team Bus' started by wfc78, Aug 14, 2012.

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  1. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    There's a piece on Omer Riza on the club website which has a bit of academy news tagged on the end, somewhat disrespectfully to the two players in my opinion, regarding departures.

    One of the better technical players at the academy in recent years Sonny Blu Lo-Everton has now left the building.

    2nd year scholar Darrin Enahoro-Marcus has also left, which is no great surprise considering the amount of defenders being given scholarships this year.

    https://www.watfordfc.com/news/riza-on-receiving-his-pro-licence-im-really-proud

    'Watford FC confirms that Academy players Sonny Blu Lo-Everton and Darrin Enahoro-Marcus have left the club ahead of the 2022/23 season. The Hornets wish both players the best for their futures.'
     
  2. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Shame about Sonny, really liked the look of him. Feels like though if you real to impress/hold down a regular starting spot in these non-league loans, you're gonna struggle to be kept on here.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  3. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    Possibly.

    I think if a young player goes on loan and is regularly playing above the level of the league he's in then it's probably the wrong move as he's not being tested enough. In a way you almost want the player to struggle - or put another way, have to fight for his place and prove himself - otherwise what is he learning? Players often coast through academy games so you don't want that when out on loan.

    For the team getting the player, Yeovil in Lo-Everton's case last season, they probably know they're getting a good player with ability similar to what they already have. It's just a question whether he can push on and become an important player. Or maybe they'll be happy with an affordable squad filler?

    For Watford it's almost secondary as to how he performs providing he doesn't stink the place out! It's more or as much about how he comes back and takes that experience of playing at a higher level to what he's used to and carries that into the following season.

    Depending on the players level it's then a question of what happens the following season. A similar loan if there's no real progression but the club still believe he has something. A higher division loan if he's developing on the expected path or if there's a big leap as a player/person then can he be used in the 1st team here.

    Lo-Everton must have shown Watford enough progression because he was offered a new contract.

    The flip side of course is now the player has tasted 1st team involvement & games, with all the mental/emotional rewards that brings, it may mean he decides to leave to build his career at a club willing to include him regularly rather than shifting from one loan to another in the hope his parent club decide to include him at some point.

    It'll be interesting to see where Lo-Everton ends up. If it's down the leagues then to me it'll mean he wants a career playing 1st team football at a club he belongs to rather than being a project, so to speak, in the hope he'll progress with them or catch the eye and move up via transfers. Or has a club similar or bigger in size to Watford offered him something better in terms of a long-term plan?
     
  4. reids

    reids Squad Player

    I still maintain the poor choice of loan last season ruined any chance of him making a career at Watford. Excelled at Wealdstone in the National League in 20/21 when used as an #8 and a #10. Joins Yeovil in 21/22 and was used mostly on the wing or as a striker (at 5"7 in the National League!). I know the club doesn't care about the academy but we really need a loans manager to make sure the loans are to clubs who'll A) use the players in their right positions B) have a spot in the team where that player will likely get game-time. Clubs going after Arsenal/Chelsea youngsters on loan basically have to do full length presentations to show their club is tactically the right fit for the player now - we just send players out all over the place with no regard as to what it could do for their development.
     
    misawa4367, Smudger, põder and 6 others like this.
  5. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    Looks like the club are instilling a fighting mindset for the academy players with some team building and boxing skills sessions over the past two weeks at @TargetFitness in Cheshunt

    FYIL2p0WIAA750L.jpeg
    FYIL2pyXgAEosYB.jpeg
     
    EB Hornet likes this.
  6. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Hopefully not against each other !
     
  7. The winner gets to sign a professional contract.
     
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  8. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    FIFY
     
  9. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    With who?
     
  10. Eddie Hearn.
     
  11. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    I'd be doing my best to lose if that was the case.
     
  12. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    Who wrote this ********?

    There are so many types of loans with differing parameters, generalising the process makes the poster look blinkered and somewhat lacking in understanding of the reasons players leave their parent club on youth, one month, 6 month or full season temporary transfers. Player age will come into it, the league he's from and the league he's going to will also determine the expectations.

    There are so many other factors needed to be taken into account it's probably best to ignore the above post and file it under Horse-****.

    I'll not embarrass myself or insult others by writing such nonsense for the foreseeable and will stick to posts of few words, more facts and a lot less opinion.
     
    põder likes this.
  13. Who wrote this ******** ?
    The post it referred to was both sensible and informative. I'd liked it :)
     
  14. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    I read it back this morning and it annoyed me. It partly described how a small percentage of loans can work but left out much much more.

    As Reids pointed out, Lo-Everton was sent on such a poor loan at Yeovil where he rarely played and played even less in his natural position. He'd have taken some things from what he went through but at 18, 19 or 20 years of age, they need to be playing regularly and preferably in a position best suited to them to really kick on.
    Pollock played many games and was voted young player of the year I think but was it really a sensible loan? Cheltenham played with a back 3 while, at the time, we were immersed in a flat back 4. Game time, good. Learning the system he was expecting to come back to, not good.

    As I said this morning, it's impossible to sum up loans by generalising because each deal should be tailored to the individual and not just sending them out to any club who'll have them, hoping for the best.
     
    reids likes this.
  15. Yes I agree but unless you're a top 6 side with teams fighting over your youngsters it's pretty difficult to make too may demands on the receiving club. Maybe an understanding that he's going to start most games and a right to recall if he doesn't. We change manager and formation so many times, it's probably not worth worrying too much about the formation he will be playing in. Pollock playing in a back 5 as it turns out, will be excellent prep.......until we sack Edwards and change again :).. The Sonny L-E loan on the other hand doesn't look so clever.
     
    ThePaperBoy likes this.
  16. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    An odd one this;

    Bogdan Marian, 17 year old keeper from Romania and with the academy since 2013.
    This season is a big one for him as he starts his 2nd year as a scholar.

    Well, he's now changed up and will play as a defender!
     
    Smudger, domthehornet and EB Hornet like this.
  17. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Does that make him transdefender?
     
  18. What are his/her/it’s pronouns?
     
  19. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

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  20. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    By pure chance I came across two academy results today.

    As mentioned in the pre-season thread, our u21s look to have played 2x 45 games against a WBA PL2 side and a Hertha Berlin XI.
    No idea how the WBA half went but it looks as though we got beat 0-4 against Hertha.

    The u18s faired somewhat better with a 3-0 win against Northampton Town u18s, with all goals coming in the 2nd-half.
     
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  21. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    A 0-4 defeat for the u21s against Southampton B this lunch-time.

    A full strength squad minus Adian Manning and JJ McKiernan, the latter being on trial at Eastleigh at the moment. No Fletcher this time around though Mabude played and he and Jack Grieves had a shot hit an upright each when the score was 0-3.

    A write up here from the Southampton site;
    https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/...mpton-b-team-watford-pre-season-friendly-2022

    Two trialists played. Centre-back Sam Dreyer and midfielder Max Delyfer.

    Some background on those two;

    Dreyer (18) released at the end of last season a year after signing pro forms at Stevenage as a 17 year old. It looks like they've reduced their academy and dropped the u23s so his release could in part be for that reason.

    Here's what the club had to say upon him signing professional terms;
    https://www.stevenagefc.com/news/20...nglish-football-league-tuesday-13-april-2021/

    Defender Sam Dreyer followed a very similar path to Ben Wilmot in that he was a central midfielder that we quickly saw had better attributes as a centre half. He's been a centre half since Under 14s, and has made the transition there really well. Captain of the Scholars this season, he has lead by example. He has been outstanding in Under 23 games, trained with the First Team and made some really good impressions up there.

    Delyfer (19) is a centre-midfielder with a good passing range and was voted young player of the season for Potters Bar last year. Not a lot written about him otherwise.

    There is a video for some of last seasons highlights though so if you've a spare 8 minutes you can see what our scouts have seen in him!
     
  22. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    No details sadly but Watford u18s beat Stevenage u18s 1-0 earlier today in a friendly.

    The Boro' are a Cat.3 academy, Watford Cat.2.
     
  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    And U23's lost away to Southampton B 4-0.
     
  24. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    Ahem, ;)

     
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  25. I’m hearing on social media that the u21s or U23s lost 0-4 vs a Soton B team today. Will confirm when I have further details.
     
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  26. reids

    reids Squad Player

    JJ McKiernans trial at Eastleigh was successful and he's bagged himself a loan move for the season. Here's hoping it goes better than his time at Bohemians last season, where he played a total of 8 mins.
     
    EB Hornet likes this.
  27. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    Just a 6 month loan initially for JJ.
    He has an assist and won a penalty in his two trial games so hopefully he continues that form.
     
  28. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    Delyfer has signed on (subject to completing his medical) for the u21s.

    https://www.watfordfc.com/news/academy-delyfer-joins-young-hornets
     
  29. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

  30. It's our Max requirement.
     
  31. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Finally, a replacement for Delyfeu.
     
  32. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    The u18s lost 0-6 against the Tottenham Hotspur u18s this morning.
     
  33. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

    Myles Roberts has gone on loan to Welling United of the National League South (Tier 6).

    He played yesterday and was named Man of the Match in a 0-0 draw against Taunton.

    No length of loan has been announced (yet) but an interview with Roberts after the game made it sound like it's for the season.

     
    EB Hornet likes this.
  34. ThePaperBoy

    ThePaperBoy No Longer Delivering

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  35. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

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