Your Starting Xi

Rule of 11

 

Think people are maybe forgetting that Bachmann is actually a pretty decent keeper. He has a couple of flaws that need working on, but for the most part he's done a very good job for us.

 

Oh, good. Okoye is clearly another complete dud then.

Sorry, Bachmann isn't a pretty decent keeper. He's bang average. If Okoye can't get ahead of him he must be truly crap.

 

Bang average/not good in the PL, pretty decent at the level we're at now.

 

We’ll probably scrape by with Bachman if the defence performs as well as it did last time round, if we go up it will be back to the drawing board though, as he’s hopelessly out of his depth unless he’s protected by a record breaking defence and facing mostly dud championship players.

 

Bachmann might be decent but Okoye is better than him. If Okoye doesn't get to be first choice till December, I can see him trying to go out on loan so as not to lose his place in the national team.

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His flaws are significant though. The championship teams (some already highly proficient on set pieces) will be licking their chops over corners and throw ins. For Okoye not to be a slam dunk starter in the championship for £6m shows another very poor piece of recruitment. We really needed that £6m last year (or indeed now)

 

I think the concern is more about how we have spent £5m-£6m on a new GK - but clearly haven't scouted him thoroughly enough to know he's not even a step-up from last season's No.2.

I guess technically he was purchased last season - and given how the vast majority of last season's additions have faired, its shouldn't really surprise any of us.

 

My post wasn't addressing those who have that concern, as it's a concern I share.

Edwards currently preferring a member of the squad more familiar with his teammates isn't necessarily a massive indictment on Okoye's ability, and it could be a good thing to have two decent keepers pushing eachother throughout the season.

 

They are, in the PL. I don't think many Championship sides have the ability to expose those flaws regularly enough to make it a major weak spot for us, as shown two years ago.

£6m? Wasn't it £4.5m?

 

Rob’s worked with both keepers during pre-season and if he’s decided he wants to start with DB, that’s fine for me.

He’s making his decision based on the last few weeks, not based on last season or the one before.

Okoye can only be considered a failure if he hardly ever plays. Not every new signing hits the ground running. Hopefully we will see him in the League Cup and can be better qualified to start judging him then.

Surely the time to moan about DB starting the season is if he messes up in the opening games? Rather than now before a ball is kicked (or caught or dropped)

 

If Okoye was better than him he'd be number one...

 

I think he will be a liability from corners and throw ins personally and will cost us goals time and again and unsettle the defence. Time will tell.

You are right £6m euro so £5m. Nonetheless that £5m would have useful considering our frugal approach last season, rather than bringing in a championship reserve keeper for the season after?

 

Not sure people are upset about DB starting. They are upset that we’ve spent £5m on a player considered his deputy considering we have seen DB’s weaknesses.

Just the latest example in a long line of a club with financial problems wasting millions of pounds.

 

Yes I don’t disagree that so far that looks to be a stupid piece of business but the key words are surely ‘so far’. There’s plenty of time for Okoye to develop but yes I do see the frustration of our expensive new keeper being considered not good enough to start the campaign ahead of last seasons number two who then looked set to leave. But IMO it’s way too early to say the Okoye money was a waste. He could grow this season and go on to become a regular for ten seasons. We don’t know either way just yet.

However, all I’m really bothered about is trying to win on Monday week and if Rob thinks we have more chance of that with DB, then who am I to moan?!

 

Yep don't get me wrong I trust RE judgement, but the fact he is opting for DB means I think we have wasted money (again). I'd expect a £5m keeper to be a lock at Championship level rather than be potential (judging the situation kindly).

 

For me, it was pretty clear we needed a long term solution to our GK problem. We had a first choice on the cusp of retirement, and a 2nd choice who will likely never be better than Championship level.

I don't see it as a massive issue that we've looked to solve that long term problem by bringing in a 22 year old, who already has 60+ apps in a decent league, and has established himself number 1 of a decent international team.

Don't think we can establish for sure how much of a waste that £4.5m is, until a couple years from now. Whether that £4.5m could have been spent differently, with the situation we were in, is a different issue. Although I personally don't think our budget was a strict £4.5m, and we could have spent more if we wanted, but chose not to.

 

If Sema starts our first few games of the season, will you conclude he is among the two best wingers we currently have in the team?

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They bought him to play in the EPL!

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So far!

If we were chatting back in February, we’d probably both agree that we’d wasted money on Kayembe. Fast forward to now though and there are signs that, fingers crossed, he could be a decent asset this season

Some players settle at once, others take longer.

We can really only say Okoye was a dud if he hardly ever plays for us. But he has age on his side.

And he’s not been benched in favour of a youngster or a loanee. He’s number two for now to an experienced international keeper who has played many times for us over the past two years.

We’d probably have wasted that £4 million anyway had we spent it elsewhere last January!

 

All I can think of is that Bachmann is the better ball playing keeper (Which Rob Edwards will be using a lot this Season) and has better shot handling. That's about it. I'd prefer Okoye but I can just about see why even if I don't agree with it.

 

Everything will be okoye in the end

 

£1.3m using the correct ex rate.

 

Kayembe was a waste of money because presumably he was brought in to help us stay in the PL and he was no good at that level. See also Kalu.

 

Please can we use £5m lest we slip into Sarr territory?

 

I’d say both signings are already poor in terms of opportunity cost. Kayembe brought in to bolster our relegation battle and couldn’t displace the awful Cleverley. Okoye brought in to succeed Foster and now can’t displace Bachmann a league below. Both may (or may not) prove useful in time but that’s £8m/£9m used on players who haven’t fulfilled their primary purpose so money could have been used better elsewhere both last January and this summer with more competent scouting.

 

On that level yes but if he were to help us win promotion this season than it could be argued longer-term he wasn’t

 

Just going off transfermarkt, but whether it's £4.5m or £5m, I think the point still stands.

 

That’s just a consequence of how the football pyramid works. I don’t personally see a player helping us get to the level we were at when he joined us as any sort of success. He was bought to help us stay up and wasn’t up to PL standard so was therefore a bad buy.

 

What if he, as a 23 year old, helps get us promoted, and then develops into a decent PL player? Is he still a bad buy then?

Or is he doomed to be a bad buy for his entire Watford career, thanks to 9 average/poor starts, in an awful side, under a coach who had given up?

 

You’re right. Apologies for my optimistic posts tonight

 

I will conclude that Edwards thinks Sema is better than the limited options he'll have at his disposal. The fact is he has three keepers to choose from and decided Bachmann is the best of the three.