Why? I don’t aim this at you personally - just your post was one of many I could reply to. But why the confidence in Gino or Giraldi to source what is needed defensively? I find it quite alarming that so many on here still don’t realise the full extent of how bad we are defensively and how that is squarely at the door of the owner and his head recruitment honcho. I see the usual ‘we can’t really criticise because the club may have been in for defenders and just not managed to secure them’ line being rolled out - and of course we can’t 100% know. None of us are privy to it. But we can certainly have a fairly strong guess. Craig Dawson and a new contract for Cathcart show me that they are either have no interest in adding quality defenders or incapable of scouting any. Janmaat is approaching the end of his deal and I won’t bet against him getting a new deal rather than have the club go and buy someone better. Holebas did okay last season but was more like his old self towards the back end - it’s patently clear he needs replacing. We bought Masina as a budget punt and don’t trust him to play over a 35/36 year old who is out of form.
Yes. But Gino/Geraldi thought they could get away with it. Now that they obviously can't they'll have to try something different. Otherwise the 'goose that lays the golden egg' dies.
Trouble is it's now too late. Who can we buy who will be happy to join a team at the bottom of the prem, with players who don't seem to care, and sign a contract with a relegation clause ? Yes we'll be able to sign someone but the choice will be far more limited than it would have been in the summer.
It's certainly true that it would have been a more attractive prospect to sell joining the club who'd been in the FA Cup final and finished 11th, but then again we had been publicly humiliated in that final, and furthermore it really shouldn't actually be that hard to attract a centre back who is of higher quality than our current crop, even if they aren't exactly a household name!
Quite. I just don’t understand why some fans want to give them the benefit of the doubt over the defensive issues. All the evidence points to arrogance and mis-management over this singular issue.
My perspective is, that the biggest potential losers are the owners. If we lose our Premier League status, their business plan is totaled. They will lose a lot of money, even if it is just one season out of the Premier League. The actual and potential costs are huge. We (supporters) on the other hand end up with the disappointment of not being in the top division. The bigger worry would be the consequences after relegation. For every team that bounces straight back (Burnley and Newcastle in recent years) there is a Stoke or Huddersfield who are really struggling. And plenty of QPRs just becalmed. So while their strategy and recruitment priorities are subject to our discussions, we (unlike the owners and executive team) are not going to be accountable for them and the consequential £Millions of loses that result. I think the Wolves result will prove a significant fork in the road. Either nothing within the mentality of the team will change, and we will be rooted at the bottom of the table and the bottom three for the rest of the season. Or the players and coaches will stop feeling sorry for themselves and start the long slog to finish 17th or better. Either way, the approach to squad management is going to change. For me the only bright spot is the Pozzos experience of regularly nursing Udinese and Granada through a relegation battle.
Hold on, l stated this several times on here and you slagged me off. Even today, l put on this thread that our demise has been coming and most fans could see this except for Gino and his cohorts I am talking rubbish to some on here with the above opinion it seems. The feeling on this forum before the season began was one of concern for Premier league survival, it appears that all were correct.
My perception is that everyone on here is pretty united on what the issues are. Some 'chuck their toys out of the pram'. Others consider the issues more soberly.
No I didn’t, that’s just a point blank lie. I’ve spoken for 2 seasons now about how poor our defence is, so I have no reason to ‘slag off’ anyone that agrees?! Where I have been critical of your posts is that you have said on a number of occasions that Gino is looking to sell and that we have massive debts - I’ve asked you a number of times to show evidence of either being currently true and you keep declining to do so. Some fans want to use our current run as a reason to attack every decision the club/owner has made - and I don’t buy that. It doesn’t come across as measured or thought out.
To be fair Wolves had 56% of the tackles we had 55.2% of the possession. You only tend to tackle when you're not in possession so the stats make sense. What's worrying is the number of clearances a good 70% of them were us. Tends to suggest that midfield wasn't pulling it's weight?
I don’t need stats to back up the suggestion that players weren’t pulling their weight, I saw it with my eyes.
Why tell you when l could sell the information? Not that l would as l value that friendship . I don't have any contacts at Watford, but l have been informed of financial dealings of not just Watford, but other clubs in the past. It is of no interest to me if the Pozzo family sell shares, assets or seek to borrow the money against future income. I just know that these avenues had been looked at. Survival would be great. Relegation would interesting on and off the field.
So to sum up - the accusation you made of me ‘slagging you off’ over the issue you claimed was not true. And you can’t back up the other claims you have made. Fair enough your claim about the owner looking to sell could conceivably be true if you are privy to the info - nothing personal but I don’t believe you but that’s just me. But your claims of massive debts aren’t shown in the published accounts - so where has that one come from? How come you claim to be privy to very sensitive information but yet had to call the club to have a meeting last season to moan about the kit? Just do it through your channels to the club. Bizarre really. You claimed we are in demise and you predicted it. A poor start isn’t a ‘demise’. And lastly, you said this forum was largely of the belief in the summer that we would struggle this season - I remember a few dissenting voices but it certainly wasn’t the majority. Looking at the Watford predictions thread more or less everyone predicted 7th-13th and indeed Gracia to still be in charge.
The last published accounts show £84m in debt and £101m owing in transfer fees. Swiss Ramble (i think accepted as a reasonable judge of analysing football clubs finances) says those debts are the 9th largest in the PL. Also companies house shows documents filed this month showing the club has entered into an Invoice Discounting arrangement with Barclays to borrow against future income due from the PL. As the existing debt is secured on the ground/players and has not been released it is reasonable to assume this is more debt
But it’s nothing that other clubs aren’t doing and is becoming common practice. Our debts aren’t out of step with the norm and the OP is claiming that we have ‘massive’ debts - we cannot really be where we are (consistent PL club) without being in debt. It’s how you manage that debt and we manage it well - it’s not of control, yet that is the picture being painted. Anyway, this is all digression and wasn’t even the point. The OP came at me with a sudden accusation that I have ‘slagged him off’ over an issue where I had done no such thing. I only highlighted the debt/selling-up thing as that was where I did question him - fairly in my opinion given what he has said on numerous occasions.
I am not defending the OP but merely highlighting that we do have a significant debt. I have also looked at other clubs finances-Burnley have none, even BMuff do not have that level of debt and other clubs have billionaire owners or significantly higher ground receipts plus commercial income/sponsorship. For a club with limited upside potential for revenue (bar player sales) to be 9th with those above us being in the categories mentioned is quite something IMHO And Gino has clearly entered into a new borrowing arrangement this month One other thing-not aimed at you is that i recall Duxbury saying at the last AYP that "the football club has no external debt"-what he neglected to say was that the football club has debt to its holding company who has entered into the borrowing arrangements. That struck me as very misleading as the holding company has no assets other than the assets of the football club-a bit like saying the house i live in with my wife has a mortgage but because its in her name i have no debt-we all know what would happen if the mortgage wasn't paid
Not all debt is public knowledge. Information on investment has nothing to do the kit issue. The head of retail emailed me and asked if he could call. He wanted to address the issue and explain that it takes around 12 months to get a new kit from the idea stage to manufacture. My point to them that Watford claimed it was a new design. This was not so. Falkirk had played in the exact kit the season before. Yes, l have been told about clubs seeking financial investment or seeking loans. I was told of one today, not Watford. It is not European money they are seeking. I do not claim any contacts at Watford, never have. I am playing golf next week, Wednesday if you wish to join me, with the Chief Financial Officer of a Premier league club. We will chat about Watford and other clubs, but he would never tell me anything which would cause him an issue. I know not to ask out of respect. They mainly inform me of which players are complete c**nts and in his opinion are useless. Just like any football fan. I think the media and some fans were blinded by last season when others could see that we may fall into the abyss . That is plain for all to see now. You never know, miracles do happen.
I'm a simple soul. How is it possible for a small to medium sized football club like ours to fall into significant debt given the volume of income from TV? Wages? Above 70% of income? Any business, no matter what its income, would struggle with that.
