Don't honestly think the players don't care, and don't understand what's to be achieved by not supporting the team. I agree with those who say that confidence is a big issue, and surely support will go some way in helping to restore that. We did well last year but I seem to remember we got lucky a few times, and Foster made some crucial saves. We're not getting any of that luck this season. We need a really disciplined and foccused approach to every game if we're to salvage anything from the season.
Haha - I feel your pain, and at times after another shyte performance it’s also my knee jerk reaction. F££k these arrogant overpaid prima donas many of whom give the impression they don’t give a damn. Let them suffer another defeat... But I’ll be here next year, God willing, and some of them won’t. (again God willing ) And I still want to watch us have a 1 in 10 chance of upsetting the top 6. And I would think Gino is smarting right now and he’s already learnt an expensive lesson. Oh, and another thing, (as its you Moog I think you may appreciate this) - just look what the Pozzos have done for us and how we were saved from the Red Helmeted one, and just look at just how far we’ve come in the last 6 years - just so we can enjoy the mere privilege of our Watford being on the same piece of turf and admire the wondrous skills of these top top players who’s shirt we’d all love to own, etc etc ...
This 'gino (phone wisely wants to autocorect to '****') will be learning from this', argument doesn't stand scrutiny. It wasn't difficult to see we needed at least 2 decent defenders as a priority in the summer. Plumbers from Oxhey and carpet fitters from the Meriden could see it. Gino didn't because he's an arse who has different priorities from a normal club owner. He thought he could get away with not wasting money on assets which might not appreciate as quickly and he could have a team in 13th or 14th to showcase his latest attacker to get bids from the top teams in europe. He isn't interested in us maximising potential. He just wants a shop window. That he has overestimated the margins at his disposal is just due to his arrogance. The only upside to this debacle of a season is seeing the 10s of millions he's going to lose because of his pigheadedness.
Deulofeu was probably originally intended to be our right winger, but since he started filling in as a striker he has been considered only usable in that position. It could be that he would be able to drop back to the right wing were we to have a number 9 worthy of the role, but that doesn't seem to have happened yet, and Del (along with Gray) has remained our primary goal threat (and more valuable high up the pitch on the counter than having to track back on the wing). In my amended comment above I state: I do agree with you that we should have used our resources more on buying a quality CB, and less on a RW (I did say that in my above response to relegation certs), but a RW was needed as well.
I'm still waiting to see him pass to Janmaat when Janmaat overlaps. Tje Dutchman is our best crosser.
Since our last Premier League win, this is our record. Southampton (h ) 1-1 D Wolves (h ) 1-2 L Chelsea (a ) 0-3 L West Ham (h ) 1-4 L Brighton (h ) 0-3 L Everton (a ) 0-1 L West Ham (h) 1-3 L Newcastle (a ) 1-1 D Arsenal (h ) 2-2 D Man City (a ) 0-8 L Wolves (a ) 0-2 L P 11 W 0 D 3 L 8 F 7 A 30 Pts 3
I hope you're right, Shots! At the beginning of the season we were playing the ball around nicely in midfield but were being let down by our defence and to a lesser extent our attack. Now every department has degenerated to the level of our defence. On paper we're much better than the Blades, but they work hard and are full of confidence. We have no confidence, except maybe Quina, so we need to pick players who will work even harder tjan our opponents. If we can find any.
Do you not think that, if we went into every game with avoiding relegation on our minds, we would have the mentality that we have right now?
Does Gino sign the players to make a profit for him only or for the club as well. He has to look at a possible sell on price because doesn’t have the money that other owners do so he needs to treat this as a business. I would say maximising potential would definitely be something he wants because that makes us more of an attractive option for players and for trying to build us up in places like Asia. Gino is clever guy and I’m fairly sure pigheadedness is not the reason for the current issue. We were linked to defenders over the summer but maybe the right option wasn’t there. None of us know the answer but I’m sure there were defenders we looked at
I’d say the plan was always to try and improve the defence naturally through player trading and profiting through the sale of the more attacking players, hence being in for Rose. I think it would’ve come naturally in the next few seasons but we’ve just been caught out earlier than perhaps Gino anticipated. It’s undoubtedly an error, and it’s an error that may well cost us gravely, but I think he probably just misjudged it by one season, or a couple of transfer windows. Signing Welbeck and Sarr means we probably had the the front 6 entirely sorted, the defence may well have come next summer for all we know.
The signing of lower priced players with an upside is common sense. I applaud that. We can't be buying players at the top of their value. What I'm tired of is the hoard of Colombians and other players on our books, using Watford purely as a registration holder for them to be shipped all over the world until Gino can realise a profit for them. Signing players who are no use to us and loaning them to belgium for (presumably) a fee. My belief is that this is Gino's primary business, trading bloodstock and using Watford as a handy base. Watford finishing 17th or 15th is apparently of little concern, as the focus he would have to place on us being more successful would take him away from unearthing another Jao Pedro who could make him a huge profit, despite never playing for wfc. Remember Quique's shock at how his semi final appearance was not considered a success by the hierarchy? OK that was surpassed last season, but for a club of our size, cup semi finals are a rare treat! The Pozzos don't care though, because their ROI is minimal. I contend that given a choice between winning a cup final and coming 7th in the league, or unearthing 3 more Jao Pedro type diamonds who will be registered to Watford, loaned out and then immediately sold on for 10m profit, Gino would take the latter every time. He wanted to get us to the Premier League but he doesn't care how we perform therein, as long as we don't go down. That pursuit of just not being the worst in the league is why we are finding ourselves in that exact position, as soon as the miscalculation takes us slightly below Gino's optimum of 17th best in the league. The best we can have hoped for during this second, extended stint in the top flight, was for some big investor to buy Gino out and take us forward with ambition. The Pozzos have taken us as far as they can.
I am probably as fed up as any Watford fan but still retain hope. Most of us expected to lose the last three games - instead we have one point. Yesterday we dominated possession and shots. Yet again our finishing was not good enough and our defence remains embarrassing. Plus the number of own goals - is it just me or do we seem better at scoring against ourselves than the opposition? Sheffield is a real crunch game - we have to turn up.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander though surely? Anything that makes us money is surely a good thing. If a player never plays for us and we make a profit from them who cares. The best a club like us can hope for us 7th and Europe, or a cup win. We traded 7th for a cup final appearance last season. We came within one game of achieving the pinnacle of what club like us can possibly achieve. I really do not get your point at all.
GoS highlighted Watford's defence with Big Sam. He said this is why Watford are bottom of the league. They analysed the first goal......and Holebas was asleep again. I wish I had a pound for every time he is unware of a runner in behind him. He just did not track Doherty's run which left him with a simple tap in. All our players are like this, although Holebas is a regular culprit. Masina, Kiko and Janmaat regularly get caught out by the same movement as well. Big Sam went on to say, it's getting tough for Watford now. Once you get to 10 games and you're only in single figures it's a long way to get out of it.
Here’s how it compares after 7 games: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pre...&saisonIdBis=2019&spieltag=7&eingrenzung=alle 9th worst start to a PL season ever, though our goal difference is the biggest factor in that as there’s a load of teams who’ve had 2pts from 7 games. Two thirds go down from here I reckon.
Only Bolton in 2011 had conceded more goals than us......and look at them now. If people are still relaxed into thinking it will turn around, then I don't think they really understand the severity of the situation. We are in full crisis mode.
Is anyone relaxed? What more can we do now though? We have sacked a manager - should we sack a second one - when we were expected to lose the last three games anyway? We are still only 3 points worse off than comparable games last season. It is not good but there is too much gloom. One win and we are back with the lower pack. The game against Brighton is the one that has dominated this season. Our players need to focus and improve the defence. That apart we are still a lower to mid table side in potential. If we go into panic mode we can only make it worse.
We're actually 5 points down on comparable games from last season. We've not won for 11 games, only picked up 3 points, conceded 30 goals, only scored 7. Seriously, our form could hardly get any worse, and there are no signs of improvement...….none at all. Flores, unfortunately, has not had the desired impact. We cannot afford to wait for slow improvements. We need it now, or else we're cut adrift, and it's very hard to instil the desire in players to fight, when they all know it's a hopeless cause. Even if we win next week, we'll still be bottom. This is the position we're facing now. It all depends on who is available and who could turn us around quickly. The rule book for steady, methodical progress has been ripped up. It's all about staying in the league, by hook or by crook. Personally, if we lose to Sheff Utd, playing in a lethargic manner, still making all the silly defensive mistakes, then I think Gino will fire Flores. I really do. But of course, it all depends on whether there is a better alternative out there, willing to come to Watford and will have an impact to turn things around. I still believe in Gino and that he will act quickly if things are not working. I think his patience will be severely tested if we lose next week.
I'm confident we'll turn it around and survive and I'm full aware of the severity of the situation. Probably see QSF sacked if we don't get something from Sheffield/Bournemouth and get someone in to kick the players into gear alongside bringing him in some players who can fight the relegation battle in January.
I honestly don't know the answer but QSF did well last time around for us and giving him three games that we were expected to lose and then sacking him does not seem sensible to me. Until January we have no change of players. Do you think there is a strong defence our managers are just failing to see?
Every game from now until the end of the season is a 6 pointer. This should help us greatly because it would mean we only need to 7 more games to guarantee safety.
I agree. I don't want Flores to be sacked. He's someone you could easily like and I want him to be successful, but we all know Premier League survival is paramount. No matter how unfair it is, if he's not getting results he'll be gone. We all know how Gino works. I'm not confident we'll turn it around though. The type goals we're conceding are just so preventable. No other side in the Premier League makes it so easy. If they do, they quickly find a solution. Our defence has been appalling for 4 years now and is only getting worse. It's beyond hope and a new coach or a tweak here or there, will not do any good. The players we have are too old, too slow and cannot learn from their mistakes. At this stage it's part of their DNA as players. Had we a few Wilmot's in the side, who are young, then fine, there would be some hope you could iron out the defects, but not with this lot. I cannot see how the issues with the defence can be sorted out. The only way to do it, is to replace the entire lot. Wing backs on both sides and at least one commanding CB. It all seems a bit hopeless to me. Of course, I seriously hope I'm wrong, but I've seen no evidence to the contrary.
There are some very valid points but I don’t believe he does settle for 17th but sometimes clubs like us signings don’t work or come off and it becomes a struggle. The sides battling to break in to the top 6 spend far more than we can afford. I kind of get what you’re saying about all the players we get that are on loan somewhere but I suspect it makes a profit and as you say, it’s Ginos business. Saying he doesn’t care where we finish I just don’t buy. It’s vital for him that we stay in the Premier League and gambling on us being the fourth worst side in the league doesn’t sound like the way he does business. The higher the better as it’s more revenue from the league and also from TV, Sky and abroad so aiming to be just good enough to stay up doesn’t add up
Trouble is that we cannot buy new players before January. By then our fate is likely to be sealed if there is no improvement.
We’ve got a reasonable fixture list now up to 1st January. Lots of winnable home games. Even taking a pessimistic look I reckon we will be on 18 points by then which would have us well in touch after 21 games based on the last two tables at that date. Key is getting the first win on the board.
As the person who is always ahead of the curve on sacking managers, even I can't see that sacking Quique is the answer right now.
Quique had a full pre season with us first time round. He’s been parachuted in to a **** storm this time around. it might take a little longer for him to have an impact.
