Why is Deeney STILL untouchable?

Normally like FTRE podcast but can’t believe how positive they were about Deeney’s performance yesterday. Were they watching a different game?

 

FTRE, Emma Saunders, the 1881. All part of the system.

 

I've seen better No.9's in Sunday morning football than what Deeney is now producing.

 

Exactly, just a few weeks ago that had him on the podcast, hardly going to hold him to account for the crap he's been serving up since.

 

The worst thing and most frustrating thing about Deeney yesterday was his passing. Just simple passes in decent positions went astray, so so frustrating. I mean we're talking short 5 yard passes, not cross field hit and hopes or Hollywood balls. Just nuts he made so many mistakes as a professional footballer. I often found those mistakes were made when I played football due to a combination of lack of concentration and fitness. I can certainly see that reasoning fitting the bill with Deeney at the moment.

I also don't think he won too many headers either, which is woeful for a target man or 'talisman' as everyone in the media likes to report.

 

It's the inversion of 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' !
Has Deeney ever built any roads?

 

Were you watching the game?

 

Genuinely don't want to see him play for the club ever again.

I have absolutely no idea how he is still starting games, it is pathetic.

Unfortunately we all know he'll be starting every remaining game of the season and next season too.

 

He certainly won a lot of headers. I reckon most were 40yds from goal with his back to it and went to no one in yellow, so as good as not winning them.[/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE]
I am not saying his contribution is good enough, but some of the posters on this thread just have an opinion on TD and make comments not related to the reality of the game just played. They ignore anything he does well and highlight there option on what he does wrong.

His pass completion was terrible, but he registered more key passes than anyone else. Depending on your point of view you could quote either stat!

I would rather we tried someone else in the team as it must be worth a try to see any improvement.

 

I could say the same to you, I reference UEA's response above. Winning a header with a 50p head does not absolve him from playing shi*e.

 

Honestly, I think these comments I've made today have been the first time I've ever really criticised Deeney on this form in about 10 years. So I have no agenda here. In fact a couple of games ago (and you can quote me) I said I thought he played ok.

 

I was not picking on you specifically, as I have not really noted who is making the comments. There just seems to be a lot of over the top comments made in general.

Do people really think all of our crosses are great and the only reason we do not score from them is because TD does not make a run into the box? Could it be some of them are terrible and that other players have also not made a run. We seem to have to defend against multiple attackers not just one player.
Do people think all of the headers TD wins are terrible and to no one, or could it be the players around him do not move?

As I said I would like to see someone different in his place, but lets not kid ourselves and think TD is the cause of everything that is wrong with the team. Just changing TD will not solve all of our problems.

 

TD doesn’t suit 433 4231, those formations need a more complete forward and TD isn’t one of those. His best work has always been with a partner - Vydra, Igloo, Gray - in a 442 or 532. TD has never played off the shoulder and rarely makes runs in behind.

We need to stop changing coaches every 5 minutes, choose an on pitch identity, stick with it, and recruit for it. That is at the root of the problem.

Personally I believe we should have moved to 433 4231 several seasons ago, and the club should have had an honest conversation with TD about it.

If instead he is undroppable, then that drives the choice of formation doesn’t it, and we shouldn’t have wasted our money on Sarr and Del.

 

Maybe the fact that Vardy is just naturally better than Deeney and was able to step up his game more at the top level, and has always played in a better team with better service has something to do with that? You're comparing an England international and Premier League title winner with a record scoring streak with at best a useful lower midtable Prem 10-15 goal a season striker, hardly the fairest of comparisons.

 

The write up in my paper today gave Deeney an equal score to Welbeck, which was a higher score than most of the rest of the team other than Dawson.

Which only goes to confirm what I have thought for years, these so called sports journalists obviously don't even watch the matches they are supposed to be reporting on.

Either that, or they just haven't got a clue about football

 

Oh there is no doubt Vardy has shown himself to be better than Deeney over time in the Premier League. What I was getting at before was not just the raw figures, though they do illustrate the difference in end product between the two in the PL, but rather the difference in attitude.

Deeney was far more prolific than Vardy in the Championship and his first season in the top flight was more productive than Vardy's first season. Then things change, Vardy did step it up, he was of course a title winner which helps and did win an England cap, he like Ian Wright was a latecomer and that seems to have driven him forward. He looks fit as anything and can still run. He also has not been content with one good goal scoring season.

Deeney, well there was talk in the press of a call up with a decent first season at the top flight but nothing came of it. Did he think he'd made it in the PL? He certainly never showed any great desire to improve as a footballer in fact he seemed to become far more interested in his media image. He bulked up unnecessarily which ruined his pace, he fails to maintain his fitness and looks over weight when coming back from any break longer than a fortnight. His lack of fitness is a failure for a professional player and doesn't reflect well on him nor the club that seems to tolerate it. He comes across as poorly managed, badly advised and unprofessional in deed. Can anyone point to Deeney as a role model at the club now?

Deeney and Vardy were at similar levels but Vardy has taken the chance offered, while Vardy might be naturally the better player he has worked to keep his fitness levels and maintain or improve on his talent. put the work in and established himself as a premier league level player.

Deeney unfortunately has not.

 

Q. Why is Deeney still untouchable?

A. Covid-19 probably.

Unless he's in your bubble.

 

It really is a sign of just how little attention anyone in the media pays to us that Deeney, despite his bordering years of poor form and absolutely abysmal displays this season and since the restart, is STILL the only the only player anyone seems to talk/know about and is still spoken about as if he's our main man.

Luckily, our fan base seems to be slowly lowering their rose tinted glasses and waking out of their bias towards him. Finally.

 

Bet it was the Mail.

 

It was.

WARNING DAILY MAIL LINK

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8498935/amp/Watford-2-1-Norwich-Danny-Welbeck-scores-superb-overhead-kick-Watford-beat-fellow-strugglers.html

 

I felt sorry for him yesterday because I don't think it is his fault he is just not good enough at the moment for whatever reason, I genuinely thought watching the game yesterday that we may as well be playing the match with ten men with him on the pitch. I used to be in favour of Deeney starting games because of his leadership qualities, but he hasn't shown much leadership in motivating the players recently. I love Deeney he is a club legend our 3rd all-time highest scorer, however, currently, he does not deserve his place in the starting 11, it is not a time for sentiment. His lack of pace puts pressure on us because the opposition is happy to push up and defend high up the pitch which consequently means that there is less space to play and we get pressed and squeezed and struggle to keep possession of the ball.

 

I do get what you mean, players, managers, the owners, the team in general end up becoming pigeon holed by some and then that sticks and they just can’t see past it so everything becomes a negative and they just can’t do anything right.

Taking Troy out of the team wouldn’t solve everything but I think it would be one of the biggest differences. This isn’t a dig at him, I don’t buy into that he doesn’t care anymore as a few are suggesting, I think he tries hard, but he’s become so limited as a player it’s becoming (well in truth, it’s become) painful to watch.

I can only think of 2 scenarios where he is likely to score goals out of the basic 8 or 9 that there probably are. His technique in the past has been underrated I’d say, but his physical decline seems to be effecting that as well.

I’d imagine there are a dozen league one and two strikers of similar physique that would offer pretty much the same as he does now for a fraction of the wages.

He’s been great for us, he deserves to leave the club with his head held high and welcomed back with open arms anytime he wants to pop by. I’d be happy to see him doing his coaching badges at the club, in fact I wouldn’t have a major problem with him staying as a player and being thrown on for 10 minutes here and there as part of a plan B. But he just cannot be our main striker anymore and until someone has the balls to make that decision we’re going to play to his ‘strengths’ and these are becoming hard to find .

 

Welbeck may not have the best scoring record, but he’s played for Man Utd and Arsenal. He also happens to have 16 goals in 42 appearances for England.

He’s obviously struggled for fitness throughout his career and whenever he tends to get going he unfortunately tends to get an injury. He’s coming into form now though, lockdown would’ve been a leveller especially with Troy refusing to come back to training to the start.

To persist with a striker who has the worst stats in the top five leagues over a proven international goal scorer would be gross incompetence at this stage.

 

This is exactly it; almost regardless of his scoring rate, and how he and it have been affected by a combination of injury and the teams he was playing in/competing for a role in at the time, his pedigree is so clear just from watching him on the pitch.

The technique in that bicycle kick, the way he interacts with the ball and the movement he makes are all just instinctively a level above someone like Troy. It's almost slightly jarring to watch a forward of ours play like they know what they're doing at all.

He's no Aguero, it's true, but we are talking about a Man Utd youth who fully graduated to the senior team. Whilst we have access to it (i.e. he's fit) it's arrogant and hubristic to ignore his base talent in favour of a monolith who can't even really be bothered to remain or get fit.

 

Of course it’s his fault. He states often how fond he is of the club and how it’s important we can’t go down. If he’s not in a position to affect games positively, he should be honest with Pearson about that. His recent performances aren’t just ‘meh’ - they are an actual hinderance.

 

I meant that I am sure that he wants to be more use than what he currently is and its Nigel Pearson that keeps putting him the starting 11.

 

He obviously doesn't believe it and needs to be told. And no one has the balls to tell him.

Joke is, if he somehow gets a goal, he'll say 'I told you so' despite everything.

 

I think a lot of it is down to an obvious factor. And it’s one I started a thread about immediately after the Cup Final.

To answer the question in the title of this thread - it’s because he’s captain. If he wasn’t captain, I genuinely think he’d have been dropped by now. But this club is about 2 years too slow in making a sensible succession plan around the captaincy. And it’s festered it’s way to being a much bigger problem now. Because like it or not, Deeney has almost ‘become’ the club as most people know it. Deeney’s presence is engrained in so much now as far as the club is concerned, that when he goes, it will likely effect things far more than it should.

I’ve no doubt the team on the pitch will probably be set up to be better - but they will still need a leader. And there’s not one we have in reserve. It’ll probably go to Capoue but that’s just pushing back the issue another year IMO.

 

The fact that 'I don't like football' Capoue is the vice-captain says all you need to know about that.

 

I may be doing him a disservice - but you definitely suspect that if any player in the squad tries to show any kind of leadership, he’s likely swiftly rebuked by Deeney.

 

Pearson on Deeney (https://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/sport/18572828.nigel-pearson-wants-watford-remain-calm-focused/):
“He’s someone who’s very much up for the fight. He’s a big player for us and will make contributions from here on in, and has been all season. When he’s playing we have a much better chance of winning games. Players are selected to contribute their strengths and that’s kept him in the side.”

Deeply troubling comments.

 

What an absolute, complete and utter, load of sh*te.

We've allowed the bloke to become bigger than the club. As this thread says, he's completely untouchable, and it's a massive problem.

 

I think it's always been there and very likely. I remember him slagging off Vydra after he left for West Brom stating 'he thought he was the man, but I was'. Thing is, he could back up these sorts of comments with his performances. Now he can't.

He's done so much for the club over the years, I really don't want him to leave under a cloud or ruin his legacy but if he's the starting centre forward next season, well, it isn't even imaginable.