'The 1881': Good or bad name?, Good idea? Any objections? Discuss

This thread is specifically about the name though so people arguing about having to have a section of the ground agreed first or other things not related to it are maybe in the wrong thread?

I love the name (not just because I suggested it), in the context of the club and the fans it has meaning without being cheesy or having potentially wrong connotations (Fanatics, Ultras, Brigade etc.).

I don't think it matters what other fans think, clubs that have singing/'ultra' groups have names that mean something to their team, not other teams.

I hope people support it (whatever it's called) instead of knocking it - loaning players is one thing but an atmosphere we'll have to do ourselves.

 

I wouldn't worry zztop, not sure there's been much response to the comments not favouring the chosen name on here.

 

It's pretty disappointing that myself and others give good counterpoints and yet they aren't addressed. The illusion of discussion is just that, an illusion. It's a shame, as I'd have been well up for being involved but like most club things involving supporters this will all turn sadly cliquey.

 

Not sure about the counterpoints you mean but everyone had an opportunity to make suggestions for name, chants, seat moving, flags/banners and the more popular ones stuck.

And surely ANY name for a collective group within a larger group could imply a clique to the outsider?

But it is open to every like-minded individual i.e. anyone who wants to sing, chant, wave flags et al so the more the merrier and the great thing is those away from the hub (location-wise) participate just as much if not more - surely the idea is to get things going, gain momentum and let it build.

Not having a go at you so please don't take it as such.

 

I think the slight confusion is that a name appears to have already been chosen yet it was at least implied initially that there would be some kind of vote?

 

What power or right does a small messageboard, incorporating just a fraction of the fanbase, have on choosing a name for this, whatever it is you're trying to create so rapidly?

This is already turning into something very exclusive.

 

Look, I'm not knocking it, whatever it is called. For me, getting more vocal support is essential and the name is of secondary importance. But we were asked for our views and that is what I am giving.

However, trying to get a coordinated "movement" together, when it doesn't naturally grow in an organic manner is going to be so difficult and I really wish the likes of Hollywood and others the best. But, in my view, we need to keep it as simple as possible.

You say it doesn't matter what other fans think, and I agree to an extent and maybe I'm missing something, but even after supporting the Club for many years, 1881 has absolutely no significance to me. It could be a beer, a number of people, a number of games, number of goals Lloyd Doyley will score before he retires, or just about anything. Whereas many other facets of the Club, eg, yellow, golden, The Vic, The Rookery, the Hornets, GT. EJ, do have significance - and I would suggest that is the case for most fans. Why introduce something that is so new and meaningless to many? Yes, 1881, is clever in a number of ways, but surely, the cleverness of the name isn't important, it's the sense of identity that will work in this case and that will best come (by definition) through a name that is easily identifiable to everyone. That is one of the reasons why I initially suggested the Hornets Nest or The Nest for short. I'm not saying it's ideal but it just seems to make a bit of sense.

As for whether the name of the singers should be linked to their location, then I think it should to a degree. Let's not try and do too much all at once. Combining the two, the name & location, just seems to make sense when trying start a new "movement".

I've said this before in the initial thread about our quiet fans at Wembley - this is a marketing issue. For me, 1881 doesn't tick many of the marketing boxes. But, they'll be no objections from me, but I will be disapointed if 1881 is "railroaded" through by a few on this Forum.

 

You're not allowed in now

 

The counterpoints made I made in this thread! Everyone 'had' an opportunity. So I'm guessing all discussion regarding this is at an end then? This thread was created yesterday evening. What timeframe did we have to disagree?

A clique is more about the actions and openness of any group. In this case, it appears that a couple of people seemingly believing they are leaders of the 'group' are already making cast iron decisions about things. Did Hollywood sign off on the name? I thought he was the originator of the idea on here.

But if we don't like the forced upon us name, we are out? I thought this thread specifically was to say yes/no and why to the name. I think, from what I can tell, is the name is chosen and this is for people who don't like it to discuss it with each other.

Oh I'm not. I understand that you have some bias towards the name as you suggested it, so perhaps discussing with you is the wrong idea. It does feel like, in the other thread a lot of ideas had as much support as yours and yet weren't given a dedicated forum name.

The problem is, if this starts off on the wrong foot, then it won't get anywhere. If people feel like the name doesn't speak to them, then they won't get involved. And yes, I know not everyone will like a name but there's compromise to be had.

Unless of course, this is already a closed shop. If it is, that's fine and fair enough. But the majority won't care.

 

I'll start my own group, it's fine... I'll call it the 34D. Only girls with big breasts are allowed in.

 

I think 'The Nest' would be a good name to use for the location, rather than the group. Originally I liked The Hive but you pointed out earlier quite rightly, a hornet's home is a nest!

 

I am quite surprised at some of the comment above. I suggested the name but TBH if another one had been chosen that I actually didn't like (as opposed to being neutral towards it) I wouldn't give a flying fig; the name isn't as important as the aim and the effort required to make it happen.

The club have sold merchandise with 1881 emblazoned on it in the past, t-shirts and tennis shirts IIRC as well as hoodies so there is awareness of what it means and as someone pointed out there's even an exclusive lounge named after it for next season so if some fans don't know what it means they'll soon find out one way or another.

Having said all that I quite like the sound of The 4th Stand too, bit of an in-joke for Watford fans...

 

And guests?

 

Only if they too meet the fine line criteria.

Ie, 34D or above. No boys allowed in - except me.

Although I may look to employ a photographer at some point. Let me know if you're interested.

 

I know an extremely fat bloke, shall I take him to get a bra fitting and see if he's a 34D?

 

I'll need to base my decision on its merits. A case by case basis. If he's really fat then it's unlikely he'll get any girls, in which case this should be fine.

 

I've just sat down and read half of this month's WSC. I'm assuming that your idea has been influenced by Spurs' 1882 movement. According to the article they began by flashmobbing smaller games (FA Youth Cup and U21) to build up an impetus - pre-season friendlies for us?. Might his be a way for the 1881 to grow more organically? It also might be worth contacting them to see if they have any pointers.

Edits there's a **** thing aswell: #1882THFC

 

Making a name for a section rather than a group is a better plan in my opinion, but please not 'the nest' or 'the hive'.

 

Explain this a bit more?

 

Will a penny farthing do?

 

Without wishing to sound dismissive 14000 or so per home game, rising to 30000+ for the play offs, i guess there's around 50-60 contributors on this forum about signing, atmosphere, groups within groups etc and potential names; none or whom are in specific agreement. Ergo, less than one half of 1% disagreeing doesn't make for a strong coalition and is unlikely to effect any significant change. Overlay this against the polite, gentrified apathy of many WFC supporters I think you're on a hiding to nothing.

My advice would be broad engagement, particularly with the club (do they monitor this site) and with other fan organisations, agree a concept, implement it and support it with with bold and wide messaging such as social media dominance, meetings, greetings etc and then apply and incremental approach.

It won't happen overnight, and will meet with resistance - that what the leadership is for - to steer through the obstacles with clear vision.

The name for the group is largely academic - i thought Holmesdale was a cheese from Derbyshire until last year!!

 

Post of the day!

 

This is from reading the article in the magazine (a magazine is like an internet page but made of paper) "When Saturday Comes" (£3.25, WH Smiths carry it). Here's a summary of the article (it's not online).

1) A group of Spurs fans were alarmed by the gentrification of their support and loss of atmosphere at the ground.
2) They baulked at the idea of a singing section at the ground.
3) Using twitter, a group began to flashmob more sparsely attended Spurs away-games (notably the Youth FA cup and their U21 side).
4) As a, sort of, grass roots movement, it grew by word of mouth until it was recognised by the club (THFC) itself.
5) It (1882) has now been acknowledged by THFC who now "block book" sections of the away ground for the 1882 group.

This could be a model for building our own group! Perhaps during this summer's pre-season friendlies

If you use the link in my original post and contact them, I'm certain they would be more than happy to give you advice on what worked for them and, more importantly what didn't work for them.

Look, I really don't want to get involved in this. I'm a 44 year-old father of three and I spent many years on the Vicarage road terrace, under the scoreboard which was the only place in our ground that "sang". I've watched Sarries successfully build a fanbase and their unsuccessful attempts to build a "showbiz" atmosphere at their grounds with the jailbait cheerleaders and that, absolutely farking terrible, "Right Said Fred" song. I'm quite alright with our quiet, stoic crowds (just because we don't make a noise doesn't mean were not passionate: the Leicester match showed that). But if you want to "build" a support at the club you have to do just that-build it. It won't happen overnight and it has to be organic not manufactured. I think using the 1882 group's idea is a very good blueprint.

 

And a dog. You need a dog. The Secret Seven and Famous Five both had dogs.

 

^^^
It has to start somewhere and start small then hopefully grow over time.

 

So has 1881 been "voted in" or "accepted" then and that is what we are going with?

 

Not by me it hasn't!!!

 

Come on mate, it'll be good!

 

I chose 1881 as a name for the sub forum that this is all now in. It's kind of stuck at the moment as a lot of people like it. I would prefere to call it nothing at all to be honest. Unless we call it "that singing lot" what are people gonna answer when asked "where are you gonna be watching the game "?

 

They will answer with 'The Nest' or 'The East End'

But which is better? There's only one way to fight out...

POLL!!!!!!

 

Other names to throw in the pot "The Buzz", "Choral Corner" and "The Vanguard".

The last one could double up as an area name, and a name for the group, should one be wanted by the majority? Look up the dictionary definition, I think it kind of fits?