Isn’t rotation fairly common in championship given number of games? He played against Stoke and has 29 appearances so would seem Forest view him as a valuable performer. Not sure why you are so keen to dig him out - seems a successful loan spell to me.
Did we rotate Sarr? If he was as fantastic as we hoped he'd be playing 85+ mins every week, scoring and assisting regularly, and performing consistently. Not digging him out, he's an average to decent Championship player and he's having an average to decent Championship loan spell.
Zingernagel is hardly Sarr, Solanke or Mitrovic. Better than Sema though in my opinion. Not really sure what your point is to be honest.
Look at his numbers over the first half of the season. If he keeps that up, and manages to repeat them (double them over a whole season), that’s not an average or decent spell. That’s a very good season. I also don’t understand how you can claim you aren’t digging him out when a number of your posts are saying ‘Any day now’? It’s clear you’re digging him out!
Just an average Championship player with the odd good game and the odd anonymous one. Possibly a useful squad option next year but he won't pull up any trees.
I think "decent" is more fair than "very good" - his best stat is assists per 90 minutes, but even then he's only ranked 32nd in the Championship for it out of regular players, and in fact he's almost exactly tied with.... Troy Deeney on that measure.
First half of the season? They've played 32! If he gets back in the side consistently and continues his current G/A per game, he'll end up with roughly 5/6 goals and 6/7 assists. Is that really anything other than average for an attacking player in a promotion chasing team? I mean those are King Ken Sema numbers, really.
Exactly this. Jurado was massacred by many on here, but he'd hit double/ triple those figures in the Championship. Garner, who many on here thought wasn't good enough, is seen as being the better player. He's nowhere near the quality of Will Hughes, who again "wasn't good enough". Zinkernagel is hitting very average figures in a relatively poor quality division. He'd probably be better than Sema, but neither are good enough for the step up.
Very average figures just isn’t true. Garner has often played in the same team and played less times - so not sure how he’s seen as the better player? And the other 2 players you mentioned were given a chance in the PL. Zinckernagel wasn’t and that’s only the really debate that’s being had. No one is saying he definitely would have been good enough - merely that he was worth keeping over some of the dross we kept on. And he’s undoubtedly more creative through the middle than most of them.
He's joint 22nd (with 8 others including...James Bree! Kai Naismith! Joe Ralls!) for assists in the league. He's 57th in the league (with 20 others including Curtis Davies, and more embarrassingly, Troy Deeney) for goals. If that's not bang average figures, I'm not sure what is?
Topped off a pretty poor performance (against very good opposition), and rightfully hooked again straight after.
Fine as a squad player, wheel him out against the turds of the division when we need to rest others or fixtures are a bit hectic. Not going to be good enough to start if we're serious about bouncing back though.
How the **** did he miss that chance today? Thought he did alright apart from that, will be an asset for us next season whatever division we are in.
He attempted 12 passes, the fewest of any player who started the game. He only completed 8 of them, giving him a pass success rate of 66%, the third lowest of any outfield starter. For an attacking player, given the job of linking midfield and attack, in a fairly open game, that is a really poor display. 29 touches! In 77 minutes! As a central attacking midfielder!
Against Liverpool...not sure how much it shows. Joao Pedro had 14 touches in his 69 mins against Liverpool. Everyone had these strong agendas with Zinckernagel. Loaning him to the championship was not a cardinal error because this guy is not a superstar, as some have alleged. But he’s not crap either. He’s fine. I think he’ll be at the very least a very useful squad rotation option in the championship. This season he has been an above average winger/attacking midfielder in his first full season in the division. If he contributes at a similar rate to which he has in all competitions this season (14 goals/assists in 37 appearances which equates to 19 goals/assists in 50 or so games) that’s more than fine.
I don't think it's a fair comparison. Our game against Liverpool was a completely different content. Liverpool completely dominated every passage of play, and were at their absolute best. That wasn't the case yesterday. I don't think anyone has said he's crap, have they? He's just average. And yes I'm happy to have him as a rotation option in the Championship, because as SLB mentioned above, he's capable of a good performance against some of the dross in the division, so can be useful in that sense.
I think you have got the nail on the head, would be a reasonable squad player for a team chasing promotion which Forest are, I think he is a Pozzo success as we didn’t pay a fee for him and come the end of the season I’m sure a few championship teams would be after him for a nice profit should we decide to release him!
Agree. He was definitely worth a punt on a free transfer after the impressive numbers he posted up the season before. Was always a bit of a risk because of the standard of league he achieved those numbers in, added to the fact that his best season is an outlier in an otherwise very average career playing at a relatively low level.
Think of it this way. Every club in Europe will have been aware of his excellent stats and would have had scouts watching him at whatever that tinpot club was called. If those scouts had seen any potential in him whatsoever then he'd have been signed by a decent side, not us.
I believe both sides had 20 something percent possession so comparing the number of touches is reasonable. While Forest were in the game because they limited Liverpool’s chance creation, they saw a similar amount of the ball to us. In my experience, a lot of the discussion regarding him has been polarised between “why on earth isn’t he in our PL squad” to “he’s so bad he hardly plays for Forest.” You can look through the pages of this thread. The reality is he’s been very decent indeed for a good side and the Forest fans I follow on Twitter do rate him highly. His experience at Forest is also likely to serve him well next year.
Forest had 35% possession and completed 214 passes as a team. We had 24% possession and completed 165 passes. Completely different games, and even when comparing them, it's okay to say JP and Zinckernagel both had poor games. Haven't seen many if any posts saying he's "so bad" or that he "hardly plays" for Forest, but happy to be corrected. He's been average for a good side, and has been regularly outshone by other Championship-level players. I do agree that a season playing regularly will be beneficial to him (and potentially us) though, hence why I agreed with the decision to loan him out.
When I looked up the possession yesterday it had Forest at 27% but today 35% for some reason. Odd. Does sound like he didn’t play particularly well. Again, feel free to go up the thread and look at all the posts, including from yourself, insisting that he’s not good. If he isn’t sold/traded in some way with Forest in the summer, he’ll make 30+ appearances for us next season.
I've been pretty consistent in my view that he's an okay Championship player. He's not *bad*, but he's not a standout. The only posts I can see calling him anything less than average are clearly tongue in cheek from RC
