Their most successful player would have been Peter Shilton, obviously your friend missed out on their glory years, lots better than Collymore!
Possibly but I wouldn't like to tell that to Stuart Pearce. Robertson, Walker, Francis the list goes on.
In that case Richard Lee is out greatest player as he has a warehouse full of them that he couldn't shift.
I like the Zinc and agree with much of the above. I do have real concerns that he would have struggled in the prem, game pace and physicality, but he also sees passes that none of our other players do and would give a different option to some of our quite similar current ones. Did well moving to a new team/country/league in January I thought. What makes it more strange for me is that we loan him out and start the season without a full 25 man squad? Like him or not he is certainly better than nobody!
It wouldn’t surprise me if we **** him over two seasons in a row, when Forest inevitably get promoted and we insist he stays with us in the championship.
He's not going to have been "dropped" in the sense that he's not good enough or performing, after a goal and assist and generally good performance against Premier League, FA Cup holders Leicester, is he? Could quite easily have been a fitness issue or purely tactical.
Is there no room for a measured take on PZ’s loan at Forest? He is doing fairly well at a play-off chasing championship side. I don’t think he is good enough to be a regular in the PL, certainly not yet, though obviously he is a different profile of player from what we have. But he hasn’t been as integral to their playoff push as Johnson or Worrall or even Garner or Yates.
Bingo. Decent/Average Championship player nothing more, nothing less. Hopefully he can kick on but at 27 and with an average career apart from an outlier season in a poor league, it doesn't look massively likely. Will hopefully make a decent contribution if needed in the Championship next year.
I think quite clearly somewhat above average but yes. But and I think the frustration that many on here have is that Sema is an average championship player and was retained for some reason.
Seriously - and again - the number of minutes he has played, and the amount of times he’s started under Cooper are freely available to find. Yes he didn’t play tonight. But you are arguing something that is silly because it’s so easily disproved. To this date, he has been a regular starter.
Maybe slightly above average. But his output, even now playing for an in form side, is very average. As are his performances. With a influential display thrown in every couple of months. Sema is also in that bracket but I suppose as others have suggested, was more likely to be satisfied with a bit-part role this season. Can't see Zinc getting much game time as a winger ahead of Sarr/JP/Cucho/Dennis, and he's not quite good enough to play in the centre, certainly not at this level. If players had no say in the matter I'd rather PZ had played the 500 or so minutes that Sema has played this season for us, but it's probably not the best thing for him, or us in the long run.
He's played less minutes since Davis has arrived, as I was told. What's so difficult to understand about that? Cooper probably used him more because he didn't have the options he wanted until the January window.
Your original comment was ‘he’s not been a regular under Cooper’. It wasn’t ‘he’s been left out for a few games recently’. That’s why it is ‘so difficult to understand’. Because the statement you made. that we have been debating, is not true. If you meant something else originally, fine - but you could have just said so rather than trying to double down on it and implicating that others are stupid for not understanding!
Seriously? That post you’re quoting was made on Jan 10th. Forest have played 6 games since then. So all those games you’re referencing happened after the statement was made. I think now it’s you who is finding it difficult.
No not at all. He is now being dropped for a player that Cooper wanted. That's not difficult to understand surely. Personally I like Zinckernagel always did but he's not the saviour that some are making out hi to be.
It’s not hard to understand - because it’s only partially true given Zinckernagel has still played. Do you now finally accept your original point was incorrect? No one is making him out to be saviour so you’re reading posts and coming to wild conclusions. What some, myself included, are saying is that he is a more creative profile than some of the players we have kept on, or signed, and we feel it’s poor judgment by whoever made those choices.
Why are you desperately wanting me to say I was wrong? Who knows if he's more creative than what we have because he's plying his trade in the Championship not the Premier league. You and others are making assumptions. The proof is in the pudding as Ray said for if and when he gets an opportunity in the Premier.
You replied to me tonight! This discussion was had days ago and has only been reignited by you this evening! I’d happily said all I needed to at this point. And you are making assumptions regarding him being ‘dropped’ and the reasons why. But it’s fine when you make assumptions I guess? Done with this tonight. Pointless.
He didn’t start or play last night as he picked up a knock vs Leicester. Cooper didn’t want to risk him
Convenient. It’s actually because he’s bang average and Cooper doesn’t rate him despite his MOTM performance in the last game that he started. Logic. Think about it m8.
Everyone knows championship players are crap and can never make it in the Prem. Unless they’re Kiko, Cathcart, WTE, Masina etc. Then a good season actually counts and makes them Prem worthy. It’s the Watford magic.
In all seriousness, it’s hilarious to think back 4/5 years on here when all the emerging COGs and usual suspects were straining so hard to tell us Championship players couldn’t make the step up because we didn’t sign any. I remember mentioning Vardy and the response ‘yeah but apart from him’.
Agree with this assessment - he's done alright at Forest but even then he's not been one of their stand-out players; for a player to be competitive in the Prem you'd generally expect that they were one of the better players in the Champ, which he isn't. I still wouldn't have been against bringing him back in Jan as a bench option for when we're chasing a goal to come on as the point of a midfield 3, as he can still occasionally produce some moments of quality on the ball, but now we've gone to 442 with Hodgson there'd have been zero room for him even as a bench option as his lack of pace and defensive ability would be a disaster as one of the wide players in the PL.
This is especially funny as Kiko and WTE impressed far more in the Championship than Zinckernagel ever has, and they're both seen by some as nowhere near good enough for the PL. Even bloody Masina got into the Team of the Season! Will be interesting to see if PZ can match that.
Not necessarily even disagreeing with your point, and it's cromulent enough when it comes to Kiko, especially, but in fairness even at the time you'd barely find a post on here that wasn't pointing out the humour and inaccuracy in giving that to Masina. That in itself shows you how much overall team success and 'names' can influence the awarding - not that I'm suggesting PZ is necessarily likely to be pipped to it by worse but better known attackers in the end. Also (tangentially) you use the word 'some', but is there seriously a person alive who's watched him play who would argue WTE is good enough for the Prem? Surely that's the actual one thing in the world that unites COGs, BWs and all points of the compass in between.
Yep, it was absurd that Masina made it into the team, I'm convinced they just had to shoehorn a Watford player in there and there wasn't an abundance of competition at LB. He did pretty well, but only played half a season. Almost as ridiculous as Kiko missing out. You would think. But you'd be surprised. I saw murmurs after he dropped a solid 6/10 performance for Nigeria.
Given it was pointed out he was dropped in the week, is it fair to point out that he was installed back into the first team yesterday?
