Newcastle United FC 1-0 Watford FC - 03/11/2018

Can you tell me where I’ve criticised him? The guy hasn’t played regular football in years and rarely if ever as a striker. He’s playing well but it’s just true that we are playing with a striker who is feeling his way back into the game when we could do with someone more clinical.

It’s an unusual tactic where he’s the lone striker but he’s the one laying on the assists for the attacking mids, as opposed to vice versa.

 

We don't have strikers when Success plays it's more like 4-6-0 formation relying on attacking midfielders to make runs. Maybe that's why we ran out of gas 2nd half.
Success plays more like Deeney picking up the ball deep only difference is he can turn and run.

 

Well that is clearly a criticism (implying he's not yet up to speed and could be more clinical). Success is playing the same hold-up/target man role as Deeney was doing at the start of the season and appears more effective at it than Troy (in spite of claims that he's still adjusting again to first-team football). Deulofeu has been playing more off the shoulder in the same way that Gray was doing before. While it would be good if Success was also a better finisher, our bigger problem has been Deulofeu and Gray's inability to finish.

 

If Origi hadn’t played for Liverpool, I think less people would believe him to be the answer IMO. He had a decent start to his career in France but went massively backwards once the Liverpool deal was announced. So much so he was put in Ligue 1’s worst team of the season. He flitted in and out of the Liverpool team for a few months but was mainly left out before being packed off to Wolfsburg who struggled in the Bundesliga, where he was predominantly played on the wing or sat on the bench.

He’s not the increase in finisher that we need and certainly not at the transfer fee being touted in the press.

 

How many goals would this striker with better goalscoring ability be expected to score though?

Last season only five players that play as strikers outside the Big 6 managed double figures in the league: Vardy, Arnautovic, Rooney, Wood, Murray. The first three would've been way beyond our budget (and Rooney mainly played in midfield). Wood got 10 but had never really played in the Premier League before, doesn't suit our style of play and has only got one so far this season. Murray is 35 and is playing and scoring better than he ever has in the Premier League, he'd never had a season like last year before.

There simply aren't a glut of affordable double figures strikers out there. 14 clubs are looking for them, Deeney's managed double figures twice in the last two seasons but fans want to upgrade him (I know a lot were penalties but then Murray, Rooney and Vardy all take pens too). Ighalo got 15, went off the boil and most fans were delighted to get rid of him. No club outside the top 6 managed to unearth a foreign gem who could come straight in and get double figures last season.

For all the criticism of Gray, his scoring rate is such that if he started most games for us, he'd probably hit double figures. We'd just have to put up with a lot of missed chances and miscontrols along the way...

 

I find myself agreeing with the complete over-reaction and rants that we were awful, and those who say get a grip we were not that bad. The first feeling was on the train coming back last night, the second is seeing where we are in the premier league and thinking about it this morning ... football, that's why we love it and hate it ...

 

I know he was always going to Fulham but I was gutted we didn’t compete for Mitrovic in the summer.

I’d personally be bidding for someone like Charlie Austin in January. Is now 3rd/4th choice at Southampton. Sadly anyone bigger/better won’t be moving in January.

 

If I was the manager this would be my team.

Femenia Mariappa Cathcart Masina

Doucoure Capoue/Chalobah

Deulofeu Pereyra

Gray Success

Alternate games with Capoue and Chalobah when fully fit and bring Hughes on as impact sub anywhere in midfield as I don't think he's effective enough wide right we need pacy runner there. Deeney can be used some games as he's the captain and Gracia likes him.
Gray not the most skilful but we need someone in the box ideally.

 

Let's not panic. Give him until after the Soton game. Call for Pardew if we don't win by at least 3 goals

 

Yes he is banned.

 

We were just unlucky. We should have scored about 6, but we didn't and Newcastle gained an overdue victory. At the end of the day the rule of averages dictated they had to win soon regardless of the opponent, and unfortunately it was at our expense.

It was another good performance deserving of another victory, but as happens in football it just wasn't our day.

I can say this because I didn't spend 12 hours going to and from the game

 

MOTD thought we were unlucky, so you're in good company. Or are you?

 

Basically we should have won but didn’t take our chances. On the Newcastle forum they say the same, we were much better, especially first half, and they’ve got away with it. Annoying but at least we played well. In fact we’ve played well most games this season, and if we were unbeaten right now it wouldn’t be completely down to luck but down to the fact we are a genuinely good team.

 

Then I think you’re taking what I’ve said the wrong way. It’s a criticism of Success in that he’s finally decided to take his career seriously 3 years after we signed him. So we are now paying for that because he’s ‘learning on the job’ so to speak. His performances have been good when that’s taken into consideration. But I agree with the people who are saying we are almost playing with 6 midfielders, with Success and Deulofeu being the most advanced. The next step for Success is for him to play more central if he’s going to be a striker - because he’s still naturally drifting wide and looking for the ball rather than staying where a lone striker should and letting the ball come to him.

It’s not criticism in that he’s playing badly or doing the wrong things. It’s more that he’s still learning to be able to do the right things. If we had an Ings or an Austin who stay central, we win comfortably yesterday.

And we should be able to compete for these types of player. Regardless of Deeney/Gray’s pre-season form, we needed to add another striker.

 

Hopefully when we get Salah and Suarez in January, we'll win these sorts of games.

 

I don't think we're really paying for that, given, as you say, that his performances have been good; slightly better even than Deeney's who has also only recently decided to buck his ideas up again this season. Success is also still only 22, which is particularly young for a striker, so it's no shock that he's still learning. His main drawbacks at the moment are his stamina, as like too many of our players his level drops a bit at around 60 minutes, and his finishing. But his all-round play, technique and decision making I believe have been remarkably mature and accomplished given how little he has played in recent seasons.

I disagree that he needs to stay more central, he was key to creating our chances yesterday and thus were we to have another striker, e.g. an Ings or an Austin, they should rather be in place of Gray or Deulofeu. I agree that we need to add a striker, and I was saying as much throughout the summer, but I've thought that it should be an upgraded version of Gray, i.e. a striker capable of playing off the shoulder, stretching opposition defences and being a poacher (e.g. more of an Ings, Wilson, or peak-level Defoe type). In a way Deulofeu looks to be exactly what the doctor ordered as far as his pace, movement and running off the ball is concerned, but if his finishing reverts to the level we saw yesterday rather than Huddersfield than he's also not really an ideal long-term solution in the same way that Gray isn't.

PS. on a tangential point, starting with Gray up top again, or another new upgraded version, would have the benefit of allowing Deulofeu to go back to rotating with Hughes on the right-wing; I agree with those saying that Hughes sometimes doesn't really offer enough going forwards, and is thus more suited to tougher opposition than games where we're expected to win.

 

The only way we'll win with those two is in a Scrabble tournament where the rule about proper nouns is "relaxed".

 

Alex Scott says this every time she does her punditry.

It’s either a personal bet or she’s receiving a royalty.

She also writes for the Morning Star.

 

Does Gino play scrabble?

I’d back him to find a proper noun loophole.

 

Don't really disagree with most of that. But it's a fact that we are playing with a front 2 who are actually naturally wingers. That more than anything says we need strikers. Theres no doubting their quality. But we are too profligate in front of goal and I really don't think its a 'bad patch', and its more inherent in the players we are playing up top. They are just aren't clinical enough. Deulofeu is a winger and there's a reason he's played there for his whole career so far. Same with Success. The fact we are trying to adapt them both to a new role at the same time, and together, is a danger - as Pereyra aside, the goals from midfield (Hughes, Capoue, Doucoure) are non-existent.

 

Just for the record, I'm still bloody annoyed.

 

I've watched the highlights now and it was a superb performance. We should have had our biggest ever away win. On good goal scoring chances alone it could have been 7-1, had we been ultra clinical. A 3-1 win for us would have been flattering to Newcastle.

I love watching the quality of this side. It's amazing. The link up play going forward is the best I've ever seen. The fluency of quick passing involving Hughes, Pereyra, Success, Deulofeu is mesmerising at times. Looking back at our 11 league matches we should have won 9 of them. Those that got away were Arsenal, Fulham and Newcastle. We should have picked up 9 points instead of just 1.

Are the defence at fault? No, we've only conceded 13 goals in 11 games, and if you take off that referee induced Bournemouth disaster, it's only 9 goals conceded in 10 games. That tells me we are a very effective defensive unit.

Is our midfield a problem? No, it's the best squad we've ever had when it comes to midfield players. I can't remember a time where we've had better players to call on for this position.

Is it our wide men? No, you'd be hard pressed to get better than Pereyra and Deulofeu at a club like Watford.

Are we scoring amazing goals? Yes, absolutely. Virtually all our goals have been "Goal of the Season" contenders.

So what is the problem? Well, to put it simply, we have a very good Premier League side with Championship strikers. Only 6 of our 16 goals have been scored by a recognised striker. In a team that's creating so many goal scoring opportunities, that's a really poor return.

Watford do have money in the bank, having made a big profit on last summer's transfer trading.

What is frustrating, is we all know this team will not be retained for long. Richarlison was off after one season and he looks really good at Everton. Those two goals he scored yesterday were pure class. He is often the difference for them, turning draws into wins.

This is all we lack. Deeney, Okaka and Gray are not goal scorers. For me Okaka shouldn't be at the club and Gray, although has improved this season, is not the answer either. Deeney and Success I'm happy with, and Success is having a good season without looking like scoring a lot of goals.

So move Okaka & Kaboul out of the club. That will save quite a bit on salary. These two are on a good wage, being senior pro's. Use the Richarlison money on signing someone who is at the same level of Pererya, Deulofeu, Hughes, Chalobah & Doucoure. These are all players of high quality, which we've managed to attract to the club. Now we need someone who is that the same level in terms of quality, but is a striker.

To answer those who are giving Gracia pelters, he's doing a brilliant job in setting up how Watford play. Sure, he doesn't seem particularly good at changing things around from the bench, but then his plan A is usually so good and he has total belief in it. Had we been able to take basic chances this season, we would have won 9 of the 11 games. That's unbelievable, but it's what our performances have deserved.

Honestly, if we got this, we'd be a shoe-in for 7th place, at the very least.

 

Better.

I take it you didn’t bother to read the part where I debated what you were saying with another viewpoint, before crying about it.

 

Spot on. Okaka, Success, Gray and Deeney are Championship strikers, (at best). We have NO Premier League standard goal scorer.

 

Embarrassing

 

Its calming to know that Pardew is waiting in the wings.

I think we need to start losing games immediately so we can get him in before some other club does.

 

We could recall Sinclair from his Sunderland loan ?

 

Let's get ready for Southampton.

 

You seem to be labouring under the illusion I'm interested in having a conversation with you. Let me correct that.

 

I prefer to look at how proficient a player is at taking the chances provided for him, and how proficient a player is at making his own chances. Everything else, like seasons totals, will take care of itself. Yesterday, for example, we would only have needed one chance taken in the first half and it would almost certainly changed the game, considering Newcastle's woeful results and confidence. Certainly an extra 1 or 3 points.

Total goals scored is only have the story. A single figure scorer (9) can mean an extra 18 points, half the total needed to clear relegation, for example.

I just think that we have the benefit of some riches in our creativity department at the moment. It is a damn shame not to be making full use of it.

 

I responded to the names but if they are rubbish what would be the point. We want a proven striker. The only one on that list was Sturridge who I imagine is out of our pay bracket, is injured a lot and I doubt Liverpool would allow him to leave anyway.

 

I hope Southampton defend like this next week. 0-3 already after just 18 minutes at Man City. Even our strike force would have a chance of a goal then!