Newcastle United FC 1-0 Watford FC - 03/11/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Ghost of Barry Endean, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I still don’t get the weak in defence bit and it’s certainly not a given
     
  2. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Richarlison couldn't hit a barn door towards the end of last season and just didn't look interested, he was subbed a couple of times and through his toys out of the Pram, he was even sub a couple of times. The club did well to get what they did for him at the time, he only wanted to play for Silva!
     
  3. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Ask any Everton fan. He's single-handily keeping Silva in a job right now.

    I'm not saying Richarlison playing on wide on the left instead of Pererya. I'm saying Richarlison down the middle with Pereyra and Deulofeu out wide. I'd have like to have seen that under Gracia. We all think we need a striker, but what I'm saying is that we probably already one and it would have been good to have watched this season, albeit for one season only.
     
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  4. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    At the end of the day, I would say we are far too good to get relegated. So the investment the owner has made has not been put at risk by not signing a replacement. So at least, financially the owner is going to be ok.

    The club felt that £40m was the optimum value they would ever get for Richarlison, so this is why the decision was made to sell him. That could prove to be mistake, and personally I feel his value is only going to increase, but it's a judgement call and it's not my money. Time will tell who is right (me) or who is wrong :D

    We still have time on our side, as we will not go down this year and we can invest the money on a few interesting young protégées. The only loser, if that's indeed is the case, is the fan for being robbed of something that could have been exceptional this season. This is not a criticism, just an observation, as it's the Pozzo's who have completely built this team in the first place and we're still pretty good to watch.
     
  5. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    A little cautionary tale. It's precisely a year ago today that Watford were winning 2-0 against Everton but then succumbed to a 3-2 defeat, signalling the start of the Silva demise!!
     
  6. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    On the topic of strikers and scoring goals, here’s a little trivia question to start the week.

    Only one club have so far scored in all of their eleven PL matches this season.

    Who?
     
  7. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Good question.....is it Leicester City?
     
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  8. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    He was poor on Saturday. The biggest cheer of the day from the Watford fans was when he was subbed off. He made one decent run and chance on Saturday when he squared for Gray, other than that he was ineffective again.

    Success’ Watford career so far is all fart and no poo.
     
    Teide1 likes this.
  9. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    If I was a pair of underpants I’d be happy with that balance
     
  10. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Only 3 assists.....yes poor day at the office. He should be creating at least 10 chances per game, or else how will we ever score?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  11. another_mrlizard

    another_mrlizard Squad Player

    Yeah, there did seem to be a large number of ******* idiots there on Saturday.
     
  12. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    All he did was square for Gray? What were you watching? Did you miss him outmuscling Yedlin, taking another defender out of the game & passing to Pereyra in the box, who hit the bar? Or the shot in the 1st half that Dubravka saved....at least he got it on target, which is more than can be said for anyone else.
     
    Ray Knight likes this.
  13. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Interestingly, Henry commented once that any goals scored when the team still loses should be effectively discounted as they mean nothing in real terms.
     
  14. Roger Irrelevant

    Roger Irrelevant Reservist

    Yes. Couldn't believe some of the abuse.
     
  15. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    All well & good claiming we just need a more clinical striker....what we actually need is an already established striker who can do the work and play the way necessary in Gracia's system and also be clinical...that's not an easy combination to find below £25-30m & mega-wages.
     
  16. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    If we're going to play that game, lets do it both ways. My view on how many points we "should" have, based on balance of play & chances scored/missed by both sides,is below:

    Games we won & clearly should have: Brighton, Burnley, Wolves, Hudders

    Games we won & a draw was probably a fair result: Palace & Spurs...Foster made 2 great saves in 1st half vs Palace & they missed an open goal in the 93rd minute; Kane would normally have scored with the header when it was 2-1 & we did not really create much in the way of chances....so we're 4 points "above" par

    Game we drew & should have won: Fulham....making us now 2 points above "par"

    Games we lost & should have drawn: Man U & Arsenal despite our chances, Arsenal had a few as well...so now we're "level"
    Muff we clearly deserved to lose

    Newcastle we should have won, but lost.

    On that basis we are 3 points behind "par" if we treat missed chances by our opponents in the same way as we treat our own...
    Whilst that's annoying, it's nowhere near as far adrift as you suggest.
     
  17. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    It was Newcastle away. The real hardcore support base, the proper supporters.
     
  18. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I accept the points you've made, although don't totally agree with your final total, but then it's only opinion. We are both correct if we are going on just that.

    To my mind were far superior to Arsenal and should have been well ahead before they scored. Also, I don't accept your Palace verdict, as we were leading 2-0 and were worthy winners. I know they missed a sitter in the final minute, but it's the only chance they had apart from the goal.

    I consider the United loss as deserved, but only just. A bit like the Palace match but the other way around. We could have scored in the final minute but had we done so it would have been a fortunate draw. I accept the Spurs match was a fortunate victory, but said that in my previous post.

    So we're +2 up on the Spurs result, but minus 8 on Fulham, Arsenal and Newcastle. So, let's just settle on being 6 points better off overall...….that's still 25 points based on deserved results.....of course only in my opinion.
     
  19. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    I like how we defend this season.
    I rarely have felt nervous. We get bodies back and people commit to tackles.
    We pack a tight defence across the middle with bodies meaning the opposition is reduced to crosses and shots at range which I think our goalie is good at defending.
    In the main this works very well.
    Mistakes in this area seem to be much reduced and we have accurate possessive play on the wings as an outlet to stifle any ongoing pressure.
    The team as a whole combine physicality and technique, sometimes with outrageous skill.
    The manager and the team around him seem to do their homework and adapt to how the opposition play in a scientific way which I also like.

    You can do all that and do it well, sometimes though you are going to get unlucky as we did on Saturday and at other times you'll play a better more skilful team.

    Finally for the main, football has moved on, we aren't playing constant 442 with big men upfront to hoof it towards
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
    Rozerhorn and EB Hornet like this.
  20. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    You mean the only chance except for the 2 in the first 20 minutes that required really good saves from Foster? Benteke's missed headed chance was a very poor miss. And you're forgetting that Holebas' goal was a fluke.
    I also think that on presentable chances count, a draw would have been fair at Arsenal.
     
  21. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    Not all the good chances even fell to Success, so replacing him with a more natural goal scorer, may not, in this instance, made any difference. In fact we MAY have created less chances in the first place.
     
  22. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    Agree very much with this. I tend to have to wait until the sky sports match choice in the evenings to see how we've done. When a selected highlight starts with the opponents having the ball in our half I don't fear the worst, in fact I often think (as is the case) we will rob them of the ball and create a chance ourselves from a quick counter attack.
     
  23. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Agree with this .

    Also I’ve noticed that a lot of pundits and opposition if managers have all stated that we are very good team .

    Things seem to be built on a more solid foundation than previous seasons.

    Our past 3 seasons took a downturn on injuries, over reliance on Ighalo and Silvas lack of tactical flexibility .

    This season we have a squad to cover injuries , a wide spread of players scoring and a tactically flexible manager who is getting players to play above themselves rather than on cruise control .
     
    Teide1 likes this.
  24. Pob

    Pob Reservist

  25. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Well Done! Surprisingly I think.
     
    hornetboy1 likes this.
  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Actually, it's fair point you make regarding Palace, however, Foster is part of the team and good saves from him is his good play. It's not a bad miss from Palace. By the same token, you could argue we were lucky to beat Huddersfield because the goals were outstanding and way above the normal standard of goal, but it was good play from Pereyra and Deulofeu.

    Good saves are part of the make-up of our team, just as much as good goals.

    I'm only going on bad missed chances, something the other team, be it us or them, can do very little about, as a fair gauge in which the measure results, but I understand this is all very subjective.

    I agree that the win against Palace was a marginal deserved victory, but I remember after that thinking we made hard work of a comfortable win.

    At Arsenal we should have been 4-0 ahead before they scored. We were much the better side that day. Missed chances from us kept them in the game, just the same as Fulham and Newcastle.
     
  27. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    I've seen this statistic a lot but it was actually two on target, Mariappa's header before his missed chance was an attempt on target surely?

    Still not much better though.
     
  28. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    The thing is, and they are too thick to understand, Watford gave them a real hiding. They rode their luck to an extraordinary level. They were also extremely fortunate to draw at Southampton. They have big problems. Ok, they can gloat over a fluke win, the first time they've done that in years against u, but if they don't have a massive improvement, they will be going down. I don't think they'll be laughing quite so much then.
     
  29. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    In the stats, that goes down as "blocked". They usually count on target, off target and blocked attempts. Most media reports only show the on and off target attempts though.
     
  30. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    That's absurd to me (although not doubting it is true). A defender clearing the ball off the line would not be counted as a shot on target by that logic.
     
  31. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    TBF, from the Geordies have said "The Mag" basically doesn't "do" quality control it pretty much accepts and publishes everything. There is some wheat amongst the chaff:

    https://www.themag.co.uk/2018/11/wa...age-still-needed-in-january-newcastle-united/

    https://www.themag.co.uk/2018/11/ap...-change-for-newcastle-united-against-watford/
     
  32. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I think it's when it's a little further out and the ball hits a player or group of players it would be considered a block. It's more of a judgmental thing, rather than a certain ruling. At the end of the day, does anyone check to see if the stats are correct? I think most people accept them for what they are and take them in good faith as being correct.

    The most pointless stat, that seems to be really popular right now, is the 'Expected Goals". I've never understood when it when they say 0.45 or 1.63. Makes no sense to me.
     
  33. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Here's the methodology if you're interested:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40699431

    It's a bizarre attempt to reduce a football match down into two numbers, with each team being assigned a number to show how successful they were. Thank god someone thought that up after over a century of confusion and no way to determine who won and who lost.
     
  34. Have we not gone on yet?
     
  35. ek uncle

    ek uncle Academy Graduate

    another Reservoir Dog?
     

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