[NOT HAPPENING] Loic Remy

Diners returning from agreeable lunch at The Grove?

 

That’s the point though. All the other clubs in the mire are willing to throw money at the problem and this is one of the ways you can attract good players to problem clubs.

I do not feel we are prepared to do that, so we have a disadvantage over all other rivals.

Current form is the worst in the league. Gracia disappointingly did not have that immediate uplift in form that usually follows. For me that’s a really big disappointment.

So that only leaves getting a few injured players back, although I think that’s folly as to my mind only Kiko and Chalobah would make any significant difference.

It’s a bleak picture but I tend to extrapolate the most likely outcome given any given circumstance.

This is why I think we’re probably the safest bet for relegation, even though we’re currently 4 points better off. That advantage will disappear quickly.

It’s a disagreeable concept I know and this is the one time I hope I’m proved very wrong.

 

Well probability says it will certainly disappear but not particularly quickly. Obviously 26pts isn't going to be enough and if we don't have 32pts after the West Brom game we're stuffed.

It's much too early to say Gracia hasn't had an uplift in form. That's one to re-visit after 5 or 6 games to get a true picture.

 

The speed of how those 4 points disappear is neither here nor there. The most likely outcome is they will disappear, and that’s all that matters.

Of course we may see a much better attitude at Stoke, but seeing as today would usually be an indicator, it was a very poor advert. The first half was down there as being one of the worst this season.

 

We don't have 5 or 6 games to burn to get that picture. It will be clear after the Chelsea game. Two abject performances before that and its a dire dire situation.

 

Its gone completely unmentioned on here but the window closes on the 31st - the night of the Stoke game. We won't have injured players back by then so the line-up will be similar to todays...so it will include fringe players that we will be hoping to offload to make room for new recruits. We don't have the space to sign without selling. I don't see where the bids are coming for those players but if they do, they won't be able to play...so we will be in an even worse situation on Wednesday than we are now, and for such a huge game. We must be looking to do our business before deadline day or we could be in real trouble. This is a horrendous oversight otherwise. Silva or Gracia - it doesn't matter, I really really can't believe we have let it get to this stage before doing anything to address the issues with the squad. It's terrible mismanagement and Gino should rightly come under fire if deadline day comes and goes without substantial action. And I don't criticise him easily, believe me.

 

My point is just the new manager bounce is not always immediate. Moyes lost his first game to us but now West Ham look like they're ticking again.

 

This is of course true, but the West Ham performance was not that bad against us. They carved us open 4 times and Gomes had to make two incredible saves.

The performance today was as bad as anything we've seen this season, so there wasn't even a modicum of improvement and this is what's so disappointing.

Any thought of an improvement at Stoke, although much desired, has no grounds for true belief. We're just now left with hope without substance.

 

Going a bit off-topic here - but should we lose to Stoke (and I've zero faith we won't) - it'll be another relegation rival that has defeated us, which must feel like a huge psychological blow (were it to happen). I was no fan of Mazzarri, but at least he took points off of the teams "in the mix" for the drop. Apart from their win over Arsenal - Stoke's other five victories have come against Southampton, us, Swansea, West Brom and Huddersfield. They appear to be picking up the wins against those they're battling with to stay clear of relegation - pretty much the complete opposite to what we're doing.

I highly doubt Remy is coming here, but despite his poor injury record and the fact that we desperately need someone/something to give us a lift - I wouldn't be disappointed now if he signed at the last minute. Beggars can't be choosers, or something like that.....

 

I have no problem with Remy signing as a stand alone buy or loan. Or even as a replacement for Okaka. Its when its mentioned that he would be a replacement for Deeney that alarm bells start ringing. Because he simply doesn't replace the aspects of Deeney that we will need over the next few months.

 

We certainly need changes for Wednesday, unless one or two of the injured play (unlikely) or Deeney plays (only if he is staying) (who knows) then it would be unlikely we will take any points off Stoke!

Remember when we sold Marvin Sordell on transfer deadline day two players stepped up to the mark and we won at Millwall that night (or was it Charlton) those two players were Deeney and Garner! If Deeney goes will be like Sinclair and Okaka stepping up! answers on a post card!

 

What a stupid night to have a match to play, what are the people who sort out the fixture list on

 

On the evidence of his first match (and yes it is just one match admittedly) are you now willing to admit I had a point last Sunday when I said his appointment was a huge gamble?

 

I never said you didn’t have a point. I agreed saying every new appointment is a gamble, but it’s not like we had a choice.

It’s like saying chose between chopping your head off or throwing you into the sea. The first one is certain death the second option gives you a fighting chance, if you’re a good swimmer.

Keep Silva and we go down. Gracia is not certain survival but we now have a fighting chance.

I think he’s a good coach, but the club HAS TO invest in the market and bring in some real quality. I’m not so sure that will happen now, so our chances of survival remain slim.

 

A tight schedule, what with a World Cup in the summer?

 

I agree that Chalo and Kiko are the key players to get back but Kiko won't be back in full training for at least 2 weeks and doubt Chalo will be able to make a meaningful contribution.
No manager would stand a chance with the team we are currently forced to field. It will be shocking mismanagement if we don't strengthen this window and to leave it so late is also very unhelpful. No idea how we will avoid giving stoke a morale boosting 3 points. I don't believe stoke, wba, soton, WHU, Swansea or Bmuff will go down. I think our only chance is staying above the 3 teams that were promoted.

 

The discussion last Sunday wasn't about the merits of keeping or sacking Silva. It was about whether his replacement had the experience, personality and knowledge to keep us up.

One of the main arguments put forward against my worrying last Sunday was that we'd get a new manager bounce and new signings too. I re-read the thread out of interest this morning.

So I'm interested to know if people still feel the same based on the fact we didn't get an immediate bounce and still haven't signed anybody!

Opinion and fact are two separate entities! 'Keep Silva and we go down' is technically an opinion. We probably would have done, especially in the form we were in, so I'm glad we didn't!

 

We can only have 25 players named so if Pozzo thinks some/most of the injured/ill players will be back by the time we play Everton in 4 weeks how many can he bring in because takers for some of the underperformers will be thin on the ground.

We have 3 games over the next 4 weeks of which Chelsea will be a loss so grind out draws v Stoke and West Ham and we stop them closing the gap. That gives our new manager a month to organise/motivate before that run-in starting on 24th Feb.

I doubt we will see much activity on incomings in the next few days and even if so they will not be playing at Stoke. As others have said lets give the new head coach a few weeks to try and make a difference. Now he has seen what Capoue, Carillo, Janmaat can and cant do (i'm picking on them given CoTK excellent match summary) we should realistically expect an improvement within a month.

 

I agree with you. I think the club have been complacent and if we do not significantly improve the squad in this window, questions will have to be asked.

Duxbury is masterful at saying the right things, and in the past the club has always delivered on its promises. But in this window he can be held to account with quotes of "we'll get our transfers in early" and "there's no check on ambition". That clearly did not happen.

Theres' also the weird interview from Giraldi saying that the club were very happy with the squad. Giving the impression that things were under control, and we'll act in the market quickly as we have all targets lined up.

The Gibbs transfer situation was an alarm bell in the summer. Why didn't the club just make that happen? West Brom could afford it, so should we have. What's our financial situation like?

Now we're in this ridiculous situation where the selling club can call the shots as we're desperate. The trouble is I do not believe Gino will bend and this could be the time where his stubbornness, that has served the club so well, will actually act against us.

Why did the club take so long in sorting out the medical department? These injuries have also hurt us greatly.

I think maybe the hierarchy have overestimated the quality of the squad. Our first choice XI is good enough to keep us up, but take a couple of players out of that and we nosedive.

 

Either everyone should be playing on Tuesday or the window should be moved to Thursday...

Playing fixtures on the same day is stupid, unnecessary and aids nobody. Especially when it’s something that they can rectify and haven’t.

 

The new manager bounce only applies to clubs without the name "Watford" in their title, which is just typical.

I cannot deny I'm very disappointed that the performance was so poor at Southampton, and the cheap early points I was expecting just from a new coach being there are unlikely to happen now.

It appears our problems go far deeper than a new coach.

 

Garcia and Gracia are the only two coaches under the Pozzos to lose their first match in charge.

Solution simple for our next appointment..avoid Spaniards with similar names!

 

We may need to ignore the fact that there are no takers for some of our fringe players. They haven’t performed when given the chance and their punishment may have to be that they miss out on the squad for the rest of the season. Harsh but necessary.

It is easy to say (as it’s not my money!) but Gino and the club have to take a financial hit for the rest of the season and spend what is necessary in the next few days to improve the squad. Worry about recouping some of it in the summer if we can’t now. He’s going to have to dig deep and on the basis that it’s partially his fault for having to do so - the make-up of the squad outside the first XI is nowhere good enough and we have let it slide.

My concern is that we don’t have the money to do the above. And 3 years of poor recruitment are now coming home to roost - I do exclude last summer, save for the last week of it.

I fear we have got ourselves in a situation where the current available players aren’t good enough to keep us up - and relegation would be Gino’s worse fear. So he has to spend against his wishes - and we have left it so late that it could be too late.

I was sure just a couple of weeks ago we would escape this and was positive about things. Now I see only one way out. And I’m not sure our owner has the will or vision to accept the situation.

 

We made a generous offer, had a line and didn't cross it. That's how most of us want the club to be run.

The jury is well out on Gibbs - he has hardly electrified West Brom's season so far. Waste money on absurd wages and we will end up in a much bigger crisis than the minor one we face now.

 

False economy. Gibbs is vastly superior to anything we have at the club. We spent £3m on Zeegelaar, which was a cheap alternative, and it's been money wasted. As I say, false economy.

 

I'm not a Zeegelaar fan either, but to balance up the debate about how bad his defending is you could argue he's come good with a few assists which actually won us points, West Ham springing to mind.

For me the one strong argument against our model is we seem to recruit players to fit the style and formation of our incumbent coach, who then gets moved on and his replacement wants to play a different way. So Janmaat can look ok in Mazzarri's 3-5-2 but useless in yesterday's 4-2-3-1 etc.

 

I think Janmaat wold look useless in any formation.

 

So it looks like we're selling Deeney and replacing him with Remy.

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footba...-close-to-finalising-watford-move_317265.html

 

For once HB1 I have to disagree. Gibbs is not value for money and blaming Zeegelaar misses the point as he was only ever going to be cover. Our supposed first choice is Holebas but he has been either poor or injured recently. Silva clearly was not impressed by his attitude. Why pray tell was his contract extended? Femenia aside we have fullbacks/ wingback who can't defend. We have also sent Mason out on loan so the options are limited at the back. A left sided defender has been a priority even before this season but we now look vulnerable so this problem is long standing.

 

The problem with Janmaat and Zeegelaar is that all their ability comes into play when they go over the halfway-line. They are truly awful defenders. And this issue with that is, defending is their primary job. Supporting the wingers is secondary. And we are defending so poorly that they should be concentrating on their primary jobs and they aren’t. We can’t be surprised. We were warned all about them both before we signed them by fans of their current clubs and it had played out exactly as they predicted.

I myself thought it was minor a couple of weeks ago. But the statement when sacking Silva, the injuries, seemingly selling our captain and striker, yesterday’s performance, no new signings with just a few days to go and fans and players falling out - and all added to a terrible run of form which shows no signs of turning have lead me to believe it is no longer minor. I just don’t see how anyone could say it isn’t when faced with the evidence.

 

£3m for Zeegelaar is not value for money either, as he's not what we need. Gibbs may have been a more expensive deal, but he is a player who would have improved us on the left side a lot more than the player we actually ended up with.

My feeling is that, if West Brom can afford him, why can't we? To get good players, you have to spend money. We've done well in the past with trying to find bargain deals, but this season it's all come unstuck. Everyone can see we're in a right mess.

If we do go down, then financially we would suffer massively. I don't advocate spending crazy money, but sometimes you do have to go a little higher than you want occasionally just to get the deal done.

Good wing backs are hard to get, just look at our squad for testament to that.

 

But can’t you see you are missing a point here too? Regardless of what Zeegelaar’s purpose was when we signed him, he’s not good enough to do either. First XI or cover. And it’s not just him, plenty of our squad players are the same. We should be nowhere near signing players like him. And we’ve signed a few of them. I don’t buy this whole idea of going easy on a player as he is only meant to be cover - he’s either good enough or he isn’t. And if they aren’t, we shouldn’t be buying them.

 

Every case is individual.

We've found some bargains this season. Chalobah wow! Femenia. Possibly Hughes.

Equally we've wasted money too. Even with the benefit of hindsight, £18 million for Gray looks foolhardy.

I'm not close to the club so I don't know the fine details of the Gibbs non-deal. How much we stopped at offering, what his wages are at WBA v what we were prepared to pay etc. The assumption is we backed out of the deal as it was becoming too expensive for our likes, but can we be sure of this?