Gracia Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by GoingDown, Apr 7, 2018.

?

Should JG go?

  1. Yes, now?

    42 vote(s)
    46.2%
  2. No? He deserves a chance to get us out of the championship?

    1 vote(s)
    1.1%
  3. Not yet. If we lose to Newcastle?

    28 vote(s)
    30.8%
  4. If we are bottom at Christmas?

    7 vote(s)
    7.7%
  5. If we go 10 games without a win?

    13 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    No, we missed chances and lost 3-1 at home with some abysmal defending. Any other questions?
     
  2. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    I doubt age is having an impact this soon. Cathcart turned 30 this year and Dawson is 29. They should also be in their peak years.
     
  3. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    They don't seem like it though. Dawson has also had a pretty long career, being a 1st team regular in the Northern Premier League at 17 already.
     
  4. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    I think Cathcart's confidence has been shot for a while and Dawson isn't a strong enough presence to help organize the defence.
     
  5. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Nope. Just checking as that’s what I thought as well and it’s nice to see you almost think there were some positives today
     
  6. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    I’d argue the defence looked worse during the 10 game or so run before silva got sacked. We pretty much conceded from any set piece.

    Interesting he’s spent money (or their DOF has) on bringing some real quality defenders into Everton.

    Edit: I’d say it looked worse for longer if you look at this season in isolation. If we carry on like this for 10 games it will definitely be why worst.0
     
  7. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Like now.
     
  8. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Odd shortening by the minute. PaddyPower and BetFair have him as 6/5 to be the next Prem manager to be sacked.

    I personally would be disappointed if Javi is sacked, but I now think it's inevitable. Looking at the next 4 games, there's only one chance to realistically win. I think his future, or lack of, is now decided.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  9. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  10. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

  11. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    On the positive side Cathcart and Dawson both still have 4 years left on their contracts so when they hit 32 they can do a Prodl while we are lower championship. Our recruitment team have excelled themselves at the back for years to come.
     
  12. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Like your optimism in assuming we’ll bounce back so quickly from League 1!
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  13. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney First Year Pro

    2 more games.

    Unless Newcastle is shockingly poor
     
  14. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Looking at the highlights the defending was absolutely shambolic. No matter how dud our recruitment is it’s still way below professional standard. Gracia has to take heavy responsibility.
     
  15. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Academy Graduate

    Javi must know deep down that failure to beat Newcastle will probably him his job.
    That's if he is not sacked on Monday.
    I like him, but his time is up.
     
  16. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    It maybe the case, but the squad now contains better quality players than Pudil, Anya, Parades, Nyom, Layun and Angela. We still have a Holebas, Cathcart and Prodl.
     
  17. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Still useless 14 months later.
     
  18. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    In Gracia’s defence, that’s been a factor for Deulofeu throughout his career. Everton fans told us in no uncertain terms that he can only play for about an hour and would benefit from having a spare lung. Every manager he’s had has recognised that.
     
  19. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    A nonsense to say he should be sacked. All mangers, without exception, go through rough spells.

    Some of the complaints against him are laughable. Too late in making the substitutions! Why oh why did he take delofeu off? As though they don't realise that a player has to come off as well as come on. Yes Geri was playing well and causing them problems, but did you want to see Wellbeck? Imagine what would have been said if he hadn't got a run out. So who comes off? Delofeu who notoriously fades and tires towards the end of games anyway or Gray, who's the only one to have scored any goals for us recently and already has one in the game?

    Our defence is obviously a problem. We were all over the place for the second goal and their forward must have been stunned at the massive amount of time he had in our area without a yellow shirt within 4 or 5 yards of him while he picked out his pass. Absolutely shocking. The integration of dismal Dawson seems to have disrupted the defence terribly. I would continue with him v Coventry to build up some more confidence, but then bring in either kabasele (preferably) or Mariappa - depending on match fitness.

    Another area that's obviously problematic is left back. I'd be reluctant to drop holebas because of his usefulness at taking set pieces, but the acres of open green grass down our left side needs fixing urgently.
     
  20. Espadrilles

    Espadrilles Academy Graduate

    The arguments boil down to

    "Our defence is crap which isn't his fault"

    But he sets the team up and we have lost our attacking edge. The problems are not solely in defence.

    "It's only three games"

    Issues have been present a lot longer than that since even before the semi.

    "He's a lovely guy"/"he's taken us so far"

    I'm sure he is but results are all that matter.

    "If we go to a defensive manager it will be like watching qsf style drudge ball"

    This is a fair point, javiball was once good to watch. But it's hoofball now and maybe we need to go back to drudge ball to ensure our survival.

    "It's the personnel not the manager"

    We have a good side I think. Yes our defence is dreadful but you can set up to protect them. You can get a tune out of them with organisation. A new manager could

    "I'd rather be in the championship"

    Fair enough. I don't believe in putting a ceiling on ambition. And I think it's naive to assume we wouldn't drop further and further down. Some people seem to enjoy the slog of getting up to the prem and then when we get here don't know how to enjoy it.


    In my eyes, unless we batter Newcastle, he's off. Even then I wouldn't be convinced until we batter a top 4 side too. I can't see either of these outcomes as likely, so thanks for the memories and hello random new journeyman manager.
     
  21. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    His last results:

    1-2
    0-3
    1-4
    0-6
    0-3
    0-1
    1-3

    Irrespective of if you think he needs more time it’s obviously not a “nonsense” to say he should be sacked. The team has been shocking and embarrassing in this run.
     
    cyaninternetdog and wfcmoog like this.
  22. If the acres of green grass behind our full backs, which every manager in the premier league has now spotted and are using to exploit our centre backs are not Gracia's fault, whose are they?
     
    dynamo380 likes this.
  23. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Isn't that exactly what Quique did? He stuck rigidly to his 4-4-2 and out of form players even when things had gone south. He was also overly cautious with his substitutions like Gracia. The similarities far outweigh the differences.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  24. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    He had a far less talented squad to use.
     
  25. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    We only let in one against Everton...….that deserves some praise and recognition. :D
     
    scummybear and wfcmoog like this.
  26. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Be that as it may, he still did the same thing.
     
  27. Not according to the Gracia apologists
     
  28. That's not the point I made.

    QSFs football wasn't pretty. No one enjoyed it. No one wants to go back to it. I'm not proposing we do.

    Why I referenced it was because QSF used a system which suited the limited players he had. He didn't task the FBs to go haring off up the pitch leaving the CBs exposed down each channel.

    Gracia is using a system which leaves huge gaps in the channels behind the FBs and exposes the weaknesses of the centre backs.

    QSF got a tune out of limited players.
     
  29. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    The point is surely that they both got a tune out of players for a while (Quique half a season, Javi three quarters of a season) but neither knew how to change that tune when it stopped working. The overlapping fullbacks weren't a problem when we were vying for 7th and reached the cup final, were they?

    I suspect Javi will go at the beginning of the international break, and many of his failings will be the same as the ones that did for Quique.
     
  30. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    It has come to my attention that "get/got a tune out of" is the new buzzphrase.
     
    Robert Peel and Espadrilles like this.
  31. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    Even if it’s only for practical reasons, Gracia should be given the Newcastle game. We aren’t likely to get a new manager in place in the next week, that can make any changes. If we lose the Newcastle game, that’s 8 defeats on the bounce. There is no coming back from that. We then have 2 weeks before our next game, and time for a new manager to work with the players. Personally I think that’s what Gino will do
     
  32. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Only because Richarlison took pity on us, his chances fall to a more consistent finisher and we loose by 2 or 3 goals. We conceded 3 against Brighton and again this weekend. We've only scored 3 goals in the last 7 games. We're not clinical enough to keep conceding 3 goals every game. Our goal difference is the same as the three teams above us combined.

    Thats the thing defensively we're all over the place, we dont look organised in the slightest. Granted the back line needs investment but as a team we ant defending very well and it looks like the defensive side of it isnt being coached at all. We're not even setting up in a way that protects the back four.

    My briggest gripe with Javi is how under prepared we looked for the start of the season. Opening day against Brighton we looked no where near the level they were both physically & mentally. A number of our players still have fitness issues. Deeney is a prime example, he was injured enough to need an operation that will keep him out for at least a couple of months yet he started both the first two games. Doucs doesnt look fit, Pereya isnt fit, Hughes looks tired.

    I like Javi but I honestly cant see him turning this around
     
  33. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss Squad Player

    This thread/forum is hilarious .
     
  34. QSFs defence functioned ok all season. It wasn't the defence which stopped delivering.

    Gracia's defence has been found out and fallen apart.

    No comparison.
     
  35. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Reservist

    Perhaps. Although we have a game on wednesday as well. I could also see the logic in getting rid of him now.
     

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