Gracia Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by GoingDown, Apr 7, 2018.


Should JG go?

  1. Yes, now?

    42 vote(s)
  2. No? He deserves a chance to get us out of the championship?

    1 vote(s)
  3. Not yet. If we lose to Newcastle?

    28 vote(s)
  4. If we are bottom at Christmas?

    7 vote(s)
  5. If we go 10 games without a win?

    13 vote(s)
  1. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

  2. Just a grinning idiot

    He can feck off with the others
  3. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Eduardo Berizzo please. Tough central defender, defend from the front while playing aggressive passing football. Do it Gino. He is now back to good health and looking for a challenge. He certainly would find it with the sieve we have masquerading as a defence. Might get in someone like Quarta or Barboza from Argentina as well on the playing side.
  4. põder

    põder First Year Pro

    Thought he would have gone three at the back when Vokes came on, but he could not have made the change quick enough to prevent the equaliser. Carillo is never going to be a game changing sub, no urgency. Capoue was the obvious sacrifice, he's just too laconic when it becomes a brawl.

    Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Tapatalk
  5. Ágætis Byrjun

    Ágætis Byrjun Reservist

    You can see Vokes warming up to come on. You can easily counter it at the same time, you don't have to wait 10 minutes to see how it pans out. Sure, Britos had a mare against Liverpool's pace but long balls are meat and drink for him. I've no doubt we'd have got points if we had gone to 3 at the back. Janmaat off, drop Femenia back. How we stuck with that back four, even after the equaliser, is just a basic failure of tactics and the sole reason we lost.
  6. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    How many managers do you have to go through to realise it's the defence needs overhauling. That is by far the weakest link that needs addressing this summer & I believe it will.

    Gracia done his job getting us out of the hole we were in. It's the players that are limited.

    His brand of football is acceptable. Getting in another unknown manager in the summer is not the answer.
  7. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    If Gracia had a reasonable defence and striking options to select from, I might agree. But he doesn't.

    We played some very good football today, let down by the usual weak links.
  8. Ágætis Byrjun

    Ágætis Byrjun Reservist

    You can easily say that, but Stephen Ward, Ben Mee, James Tarkowski and Matt Lowton have conceded 31 goals fewer than we have. Would we really be clamouring for those 4 ahead of a Dutch, Austrian, Greek international? It's all about the management of them.
    GoingDown likes this.
  9. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Good point there - it's not like there are too many decent options!
  10. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    You answered your own question. At what level is Dutch, Austrian & Greek football at nowadays? Those names you mention are also worth infinitely more in the transfer market than our defenders, so don't understand what you are getting at?

    Are you saying Pep G could get Burton Albion in to the PL , I don't think so.
  11. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I have to back Gracia, but he is making a lot of poor decisions. His substitutions have been questionable and some of his tactics have been poor. He seems to have the players he likes and others are not getting much of a chance.

    When you see how we constantly fail defensively, the coach has to shoulder some of the blame. 12 goals conceded in the last 4 games and how many of those were great moves by the opposition? From memory I'd say all 12 were soft and a better, more organised side would have conceded only 2 or 3 in that period.

    We have 5 remaining matches. The last 4 have yielded only 1 point. Can't see anything other than a battering at Spurs in our next game. We could easily lose all 5 of our remaining games. I do not believe the defence will improve, so every result is in danger of being a loss.

    If we go on the losing run I'm expecting until the end of the season, then I do not think he'll remain at the club.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  12. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    They’re all better than what we’ve got (apart from Feminia), and Dyche has had years to get them drilled.
  13. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    I think he is beginning to come across as very one dimensional and stubborn, but he does have an absolutely awful defence to work with and three useless strikers (though I would be absolutely delighted to see Gray start at this point).
  14. NemoNemo

    NemoNemo Reservist

    Gracia is doing all he can with the players he has. We played some really nice football today but we are completely useless at set pieces offensively and defensively. Every single supporter knows what the team need and I’m sure Gracia knows it but it comes down to recruitment in the end. I truly think that we would not have to spend millions to upgrade our defence but strikers do come at a premium. How okaka is ahead of gray is the most puzzling decision ever for me - I’m not saying that gray is any good but okaka is an absolute clown and partnered with Deeney it’s like laurel & hardy
    Chumlax, jrmich9, Burnsy and 7 others like this.
  15. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Yep. Another fine mess he’s got us in.
  16. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  17. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I agree with your sentiment. However, the new coach has to have some kind of impact on how we cope defensively. He started off very well initially, but 12 goals conceded in the last 4 games is a disaster. We can blame the players, and they are not good enough for sure, but I don't see too much problem solving ability from the touchline.

    Against Bournemouth he took off Hughes and brought on Okaka. Okaka subsequently went around like a big heavy oaf fouling anyone that got near him. What does Gracia do today? He makes a very similar tactical substitution by bringing Okaka on, who went on to foul anyone that got near him again.

    I'm not seeing too much invention, which is a big disappointment. A fellow countryman and he was terrific at Malaga. I know there must be a good coach in there, but right now, I'm more disappointed than impressed by him.
  18. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Surely give him a pre season and let him implement ideas properly? Can only assume we’re making rash statements in the heat of the moment here.
    folkestone orn likes this.
  19. Can’t wait to see how he develops Deeney, Pr*dl, Holebas and Mariappa over a pre season.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  20. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    I second that Gracia is doing the best with what he has and his starting line ups/formations have for the most part been fine. Like others have said whats letting him down is his puzzling subs that have often proved to be counter productive.

    Whats let us down this season more than anything has been a failure in recruitment, a failure in squad assessment that preceded it, a lack of joined up thinking between the two along with an injury list that has crippled us at times this year.
    folkestone orn and põder like this.
  21. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Obviously will need help from Gino getting rid of the dross you’ve mentioned
  22. With A Smile

    With A Smile First Team

    cracking bloke, but just not quite good enough. Lacks presence and a solid game plan.

    After last week everyone should have known their jobs when we were 1 up and defending set pieces. To conceded an identical goal is shambolic.

    If he stays he'll be sacked by October, the pre season and summer will be wasted and there is a real danger that we won't be strong enough to escape
    hornetboy1 likes this.
  23. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    I’ve heard Marco Silva is available. Sign him up, Gino!
    GoingDown likes this.
  24. Abso

    Abso First Year Pro

    Boothroyd and Malky in attendance. Coincidence?
  25. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I heard that Dyche was at today's game also. You never know.
    RookeryDad likes this.
  26. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  27. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    21st January 2018, Javi Gracia appointed new Watford boss. 7th April 2018 the first serious Gracia out post appears.

    I think our tolerance is aligning with the owner's?
    folkestone orn likes this.
  28. ForzaWatford

    ForzaWatford Squad Player

    **** me. These threads a large part of the reason I rarely come on here anymore.
  29. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I beleive that the Motm was Pope, the Burnley Keeper, that's it!
    HeurelhoGomesBaby and zpms6 like this.
  30. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Put this ugly gremlin in the bin and get some suave Italian hunk in.

    It's not difficult .
  31. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Dean Austen as defence coach. Crazy I know, but it just might work
    foxywfc likes this.
  32. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    It's a good point. As soon as Austin left was the beginning of Watford's defensive problems. It's been that way ever since.

    I believe we can be tighter defensively, and this was proved by conceding just 30 goals from 29 games in our first season, before Austin left the club.

    We are not being coached correctly, IMO, and haven't been for a long time now. I thought Gracia would tighten things up, but 12 goals conceded in the past 4 games has proved he's not having much impact.
  33. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    Gracia is not the problem, a British coach in the background would be a massive help. Gracia has had them playing some good stuff, we conceded some soft goals but look who against Arsenal and Liverpool. Ok some of his subs have been questionable but we don't see what he sees on the training pitch. Like GT reiterates in his book he picks a team and makes the changes as he sees will win the game. It's easy for us to say oh I'd of played this guy instead of that guy after a loss. Let's see what he can do with a few more players to pick from. And hopefully some additions to the defence. These games against fellow mid table teams Ian home I'd like to be picking up some more results. He got them against wba and Everton unlucky against muff and today I think we were the better team. Maybe if he had an Austin in his ear at the 60 min mark things could have been different maybe if he had an Austin in his ear in those previous wins things may have been different. I think if we look at it with a bit of comman sense he's come in and stabilize d the ship. He has the team playing for him give the guy a chance.
  34. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I agree that the players are weak and I also agree that at this time, changing managers makes no sense.

    However, Gracia doesn't get a get out of jail free card. Burnley and Bournemouth at home were both winnable and it's the fine margins going against us. Missed chances/failure to create chances from wide positions at one end and defensive failings at the other.

    The fact is that the substitutions Vs muff could've been different and could've saved us 2 points and yesterday a point, if not 3 could've been secured if the subs and game closing tactics were better.

    I'm also a bit fed up with seeing Deeney, Mariappa, Capoue, Prodl and Holebas start every game, regardless, in the same formation each week.

    I expected more pragmatism from Javi, changing formation and personnel to suit the opponents. I accept that injuries play a part, but he's done little with the options he has and seems to like to stick to favourites.

    I am not calling for another change of head coach in the summer as I like Javi as a person and hoped that the Chelsea showing was genuine progress and that the wins vs Everton and West Brom showed an increased toughness, but he has a limited time before the end of the season now to show whether those wins were the real Gracia or just new manager bounce from an unimaginative and hopeless replacement for snake face
  35. wingco

    wingco First Year Pro

    We were sold a defensive coach that likes 4-4-2. Yet we seem to have reverted back into exactly what Silva was serving up, tactics and selection almost identical.

    Bringing on Okaka after 60 mins was a nice party trick at first, it's getting a little bit stale now if I'm honest

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