Gaza/Israel

I won't put my views on the situation just yet, as it would be an absolutely massive post which right now I don't have time to get into. But with the very false representation the media puts on the situation.. I would love to hear some of the views from those on here on the matter. If I were a neutral, and only had access to what I was told by the British media I think I'd have a massive disproportionate view and the response I've seen on twitter has horrified me, people calling Israel the terrorists and so on.

For what it's worth, despite having family and close friends in the Israeli army, and actually having been in the army there myself, I'm not of the blind view that Israel can do no wrong.

 

Got some heritage there myself, if it was france firing at us, we would respond right? Maybe Israel have been heavy handed, but there comes a point where 50 odd rockets a day becomes intolerable.

 

Agree with Bracknell - You have to stand up to them. If someone rages war, give them hell and teach them a lesson.

Out of interest Kane, you said you were in the army there - Did they teach Krav Maga?

 

It was only a months taster course to get a feel for it so nothing but for basing shooting, fitness and field techniques.. although that wouldn't be the first time I've heard that's been taught.

 

Is it just a one-way thing though? Do Israel just leave them alone to get on with their lives?

Edit: not choosing sides, genuinely interested to hear from people who have a connection.

 

This is the thing, hopefully YK can veto this but, Israel actually send aid, in the form of money and i believe electricity to Gaza. They do however inforce the blockade, but that is for poltical reasons, to stop arms etc but its not like Israel are trying to starve them to death.

 

Genuinely yes, which is what I feel people in the west do not know, as the media never portrays it so.

If Palestine/Hamas were to destroy all their weapons right now, their would be peace, if Israel were to do so, the nation would be wiped out. We've been receiving 100's of rockets for weeks now, without any retaliation, but there is only so much that we can take.

I think the greatest evidence lies within the fact that in the clearest sense, without making any generalisations, you don't get Israeli suicide bombers, blowing up innocent people on buses, in nightclubs or breaking into houses and murdering entire families. Hamas only have the intention of murdering innocent Israeli citizens, their rockets have no tactical location but for into busy suburbs, each and every Israeli rockets it primed for Hamas militants (whom have been proven to use schools, hospitals and UN buildings as bases, and in extreme cases have used women and children as shields).. any civilian blood shed is as a result of terrorist action. I speak from experience having had to sleep in a forest to escape Hamas rockets and gunfire. No doubt it is not right that innocent Palestinians are losing their lives, but they are only doing so as a result of Hamas action.

 

If you poke a tiger with a stick would you complain when it mauled you?

I know people who have been to Israel and to Palestine. They all say how friendly the people are in both areas. What is it about religion that turns them into hate filled monsters?

 

Indeed, we aid Gaza heavily. The blockade is only place due to the absolutely massive number of lives lost without such a border.

 

Pretty much comes down to this. If Hamas/their allies in Gaza will stop firing rockets into Israel, there wouldn't be the response.

As has happened in the past, normally Hamas fires a few, Israel retaliates and that's it. Hamas are pragmatic when it comes to this, however this time round they kept doing it. Attacking major cities, like Tel Aviv will indeed 'open the gates of hell', but onto Gaza from the IDF.

The media coverage given to it is ridiculous, there are thousands dying in Syria, wars in Somalia, Mali etc. and yet nothing. As for the 'pro-Palestinian' supporters that are having protests, don't see them doing it for the Palestinians in Syria, Jordan etc. who are treated far worse than they do in Israel.

The whole thing is very weird, you get groups like Stop The War condemning Israel, the only real democracy out with the best human rights in the Middle East, and they end up supporting extreme Islamic terrorists.

 

Interesting, I did Krav Maga in England for 2 years and heard it's what they used in the Israeli forces. Hope it calms down soon out there. Seems like Japan and China are close to kicking off too.

 

As someone who is not religious this is something I don't understand. There is no god, get the **** over it.*




*I understand this isn't true for everyone

 

Thing is this isn't based on religion. It's all to do with land, but it's morphing into a religious war. It comes down to both sides wanting the same bit of land, palestinians because they think they were there first and Israel because they have a right to be there from the UK who had a mandate over the area post WW1.

Obviously killing innocent people is terrible, but I do wonder how many civilian deaths are actually caused by the israeli strikes due to the militants locating near civilian locations, or whether they are far far more accurate then is realised and it is the stash of weapons that when destroyed creates a far larger explosion with more casualties then would have otherwise happened.

 

Also my dad lived on a Kibbutz for a year in the 80s, in northern israel, and he said you had to eat with guns on your laps just in case of a sudden invasion from terrorists, and he saw a multitude of incidents on the syrian border with truck fulls of gunmen attacking checkpoints and things.

 

What is Krav Maga, may I ask?

 

It's a self defence martial art.

 

Bingo. Before the Jewish people started talking about a homeland and created the Zionist movement (btw I'm using Zionist in the correct way and not the way all these psychopath conspiracy theorists use it) there were hardly any reports of skirmishes and fights between Muslims and Jews that would be deemed as religiously motivated. Granted it was hard to report it but any reports that were created never described this. When the Zionist movement gained momentum it would obviously fly in the face of not only the British forces in control of the area but also the Arabs and it just so happens that the majority are Muslim (some are Christian but this seems to have been forgotten). Everything today has just snowballed from there.

 

Who is Gaza going to play for, Tel Aviv? I'll get my coat :scared1:

 

I don't profess to know the history however reading this thread tends to suggest that the UK are wrapped up in it somehow.

There's always two sides to an argument and the methods used to force your will on other people will also be in part down to the resources available Terrorism is generally the method of desperate people who do not have the resources to mount a conventional offence. Be their motives right or wrong.

Conflict over territory can generally be resolved through negotiation, where religion gets involved it becomes messy. I seriously doubt the conflict will be resolved by any intervention from us and much as I hate to say it we should let them get on with it and sort it out or wipe each other out. I'd rather our limited resources are concentrated on care of the sick & elderly in this country.

 

As Nascot said, it's a self defence system/martial art.

There's more about it here if you're interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

 

Thank you

 

The thing is, do these religious people really think this is what Father Christmas wants them to do?

 

I didnt know Gascoigne had turned up in Israel with some chicken, beer and his fishing rod

 

There is no 'Jews vs. Muslims' conflict

There is no 'Israelis vs. Palestinians' conflict

The cause of violence in the Middle East is purely down to extremists vs. moderates, and these exist on both sides. Whether it is Hamas suicide bombing or the IDF shooting children, the moderate Palestinians and the moderate Israelis are always forced to pay the price

 

The more worrying issue is what impact is has on neighbouring countries such as Iran, Syria and Egypt

 

Doing wonders for irans economy, them being able to export and sell weapons and rockets to hamas, and no doubt the same goes for egypt now too with the new muslim brotherhood government.

 

Giving back land would be a good start , on Israels behalf...no ?

 

It happens on both sides, the US funds israeli manufacturing of weapons, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are of moral parallels.

Also this made me laugh.
[video=youtube;aNtAmn1zIcQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNtAmn1zIcQ[/video]

 

All my views on the Middle East are based on Team America.

 

One side talks about defending its citizens while the other talks about the blood of martyrs and gates of hell, Iran is behind this whole thing and needs to be neutralised. Where can I go to protest against Hamas like the loony lefties have been against Israel?

 

Wont work, some muslim states just wont accept the existence of Israel full stop.