Does this mean Im no longer an outcast?

I said it on another thread but I'll ask generally.

Ive noticed a swing (or shift even) towards anger in the direction of Watford FC and our performances this season

Ive got to ask..... WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO BLOODY LONG?

Yes we're all a positive bunch helped on by an even more upbeat Boothroyd but since Everton away, we have genuinely GENUINELY got worse and worse and worse and worse.

It makes me laugh when I listened to reports after Bolton saying things like "It was a very UN-typical Watford performance today"

UN-TYPICAL..... we've been bloody appalling all season.

We had a terrible TERRIBLE summer in terms of transfers so all eyes were on January. They (and that includes Boothroyd) had four if not five months, to bring in the right players.

What happens? 3rd week in Jan and we're trialling over 25 players and in utter desparation for new blood sign three of them

THIS ISNT F*****G POP IDOL!

People will point to the fact that we're not getting spanked every week.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT MOST TEAMS ARE REALISING THEYVE GOT A DAY OFF WHEN THEY'RE UP AGAINST US!

When we lost Marlon King (for whatever bloody reason) I think I realised then, very clearly, that we were a one man team as nothing after that really worked without him.

We needed someone of real genuine quality brought in.

David Nugent - £6million
Koumas - £4million

That would have done me this window... real genuine quality. The nucleas of a decent side was there..... we just needed a couple of decent signings

But no.... now all we've got is a huge bunch of players of similar or lesser ability wondering, like us, what the F*** is going on!

God help us next season!

 

Because no-one wanted to come to Watford apart from the players we got, pretty much inevitable really in our position.

What's done is done, no use crying over spilt milk about it.

 

I was expecting a dig at the board in that post james, i was pleasantly suprised ;D

 

When a team does badly fans will always turn against the team. But we need some perspective. I've said it before today, i thought we were going to stay up, but we were not prepared. That wasn't just Aidy's fault, it was the lack of infrastructure that was in place. At the very worst this season has cleared our debts to allow us to move forward - Remember that.

We are still moving in the right direction (even if we go down), moral may be low etc but we actually have a squad now (even if some of the new players are already being slated). We might go down, but we will be in a much better position than we were two years ago (when i thought we're were going down to league 1).

I don't like seeing us lose week in, week out, infact i can't stand it, but in each premiership season it happens to 3 teams (and whose fans think it is the end of the world). But again remember, we almost went bankrupt a few years back. When we moan about being bottom of the best league in the world, spare a thought for teams like Rotheram, Boston and Wrexham.

I'd also like to point out, if we hadn't won on that day in May we may have been where Leeds now are, but we aren't.

 

Well I don't think we should spend £10,000,000 on two UNPROVEN Premiership players...but I think we could have got better players in! I'd have much rather seen Aidy spend an extra £2,500,000 to get McAnuff rather than offer Derby £500k for Noddy!

I also think we should have gone for a proven striker at the top level to partner King! Henderson was NEVER upto it!

As for this season...well we started very promisingly because we were positive, attacking and played to our strengths! Probably because we had King...we are nothing without him and that's obvious...if no one can see this then they need help! King is the heart beat of our side, we only ever created chances when he played because he could do ANYTHING with the ball...he could come short, go long, play with his back to goal, play down the channels, play as alone striker and create things out of nothing! He was our spark of genius that we needed to survive this season...sadly Aidy didn't take into consideration he could get injured at some point...he needed a decent partner and maybe a back-up!

Also needed a decent centre-back, Demerit has proven he's out of his depth and to be honest I can't see any decent Prem sides in for him (sorry Jay, you just don't cut it at Prem level)!

Francis was a player I was happy with when we got him, and after the game at Everton, I was very optimistic as to how many goals he'd get from midfield! Sadly he's only had 2-3 good performances since then...not good enough for what we spent! Although he did very well at Norwich when they were in the Premiership...i'll let Aidy off on this one, i'm sure he's disappointed with him aswell!

As i've said on previous threads, I can't see us coming back UNLESS Aidy goes back to basics and gets a settled side playing to it's strengths (getting the ball down the flanks, using our pace and working extremley hard...mixed with abit of decent football when required, rather than just lumping it down the centre...central defenders usually enjoy an aerial battle, whereas full backs don't like a winger that runs at them)! We're unbalanced down the wings because on the left we have a brilliant player in Bouazza, but down the right we have a waste of space called Tommy Smith!

I think he seriously needs to bring in at least 6 decent players in the summer to cover the following positions: Keeper, Centre Back x2, Right Wing, Striker, Right back!

He needs to cut the fat off the squad in the summer...at least 10 player that should be shown the door if we want to progress!

 

I agree with most of what you say especially what we need and cutting down on the squad. To be honest i'm sure Aidy will do just that and he has already started doing it today (yesterday?!) it seems by releasing players he previously thought had good future potential

With regards to Smith I think he will be a good back-up on the right because he can do a solid job in the Championship (IF it happens). I must admit i was shocked and wondered what Aidy was on when he signed him. seems to be the same old story of bad finishing/poor delivery which is his problem, but at least he appears to put the effort in

 

Couldn't agree more Bubble.

There's been too much talk of us breezing the championship next season if that's where we are and to be quite honest that's along way off the mark.

It's a stronger league than it was last season and as you said Nick we need to get back to making use of our abilities.

 

I totally agree guys... bubble youve hit the nail on the head when you used the word "fat"

People banged on about us having a small squad when in actual fact, it wasnt actually THAT SMALL!

Whats so bloody annoying is that it appears we keep taking a punt on players in the hope they'll suddenly come good... now we seem to be absolutely heaving with these type of players.

We forget how bloody lucky we were to come up in the first place.

ASh and King were approximately (IMO) 60% of the reason with Aidy and a big dollop of luck making up the rest.

Now Ash has gone and Kings future is uncertain, I want to know where the missing 60% is cos it sure as hell isnt Williamson or Hoskins or Williams or Kabba or Ashikodi or any of the foreign legion.

Is Aidy hiding something or are we genuinely as f***** as I think we are?

 

Also, I too was excited to a certain extent about Francis as I thought we'd got that one right, as with Powell but like everyone else, Im dissappointed.

Facts are, signing a relelgation rivals (possibly) 5th choice striker is embarrassing.

Ask yourselves this.... of the teams vying for PROMOTION from the Championship this season, would any of them have been interested in any of the players we have signed this window?

 

I think the signing of Powell could be the reason Stewart has upped his game this season? No doubt Powell's experience has given Stewart abit more knowledge of the game...with Jordan Parkes coming through quickly aswell I think having Powell at the club is a good thing in a coaching capacity! In a playing capacity I think Powell has been solid but not spectacular, not made any mistakes and not really played too much either!

I agree with that, we had a decent sized squad anyway, but we needed to add more quality to it, rather than sign 'maybe' players and gambling! Our changing room is more like a last chance saloon with the likes of King, Carlisle, Kabba, Williams and Smith! You can sign one or two that have something to prove, but on the whole you need to add proven qualities aswell! I hate to think what happens behind closed doors in regards to team spirit...alot of ego's in our squad and perhaps not much proffesionalism?

Our squad needed to be added to carefully! Aidy was always one to say 'we'll get someone in if they're right'...i think 70% of his signings have been panic buys!

 

Thats where Aidys inexperience has shown through.... His incredible ability to contradict just about everything he's ever said.

I was talking to a *** mate the other day during the Spurs v Man U game who, at 4-0 down, was telling me how he wished they would get spanked 7-0 as thats the only time people would actuially stand up and start asking questions.

Its a bit like us, because at times we've almost held our own against some teams, thats camoflauged the fact that we are woefully short on quality.

Sometimes I really do wish we'd been humiliated a couple of times as i truly feel that we might have had a few more points on the board and at the very least, spent a few quid more just to keep us fans quiet!

 

I look at this season's efforts to get new players to be a bit like being one of the guys with muskets in the Alamo:
At first, you are hoping someone will come and bolster your difficult situation...
Then when you realize no one is coming, you buckle down for the big finale and hope to take as many with you as possible on the way out...
Finally, you are sadly defeated and lose the battle...but all is not lost since a rallying point is made, and you are energized to gather your forces and come back in a year or two to win the WAR. (By the way, Texas sucks. I laughed my ass off when I heard Ozzy Osbourne pissed on the Alamo! I didn't really care that much for him until then.)

We may go down this season, and there may have been more that could have been done, but I BELIEVE this team will make it's mark in topflight SOON.

A note on Ash: It does hurt that he was such a quality kid and lord knows we need quality. Having said that, even if Watford were a top flight club, it's very likely he may have gone to another team anyway. He's that good and money talks.

And another on Jay: There is no denying he has a huge heart for the game, but in the Premiership, heart is not...quite...enough. I'm still proud of him though. Don't forget the tremendous amount of pressure Watford's defence are under each and every game multiplied since the midfield cannot control the field as well as needed and the attack can't put the opponents back on their heels enough to keep them honest. So, my hat is off to all the defenders on the club.

 

Ady's inability to attract players of a higher calibre than the ones already here have been our achilles heel.

It's not because of the size of our club, or the fact we were relegation favourites.

If Steve Coppell, who manages a club similar in size/staus to our own, can do it then so should we. Agreed, Reading has a better squad when they were promoted than us, but Coppell (and Colin for that matter) have brought in quality players to ensure their Prem survival.

 

Money talks and I ust dont think we are / were prepared to pay what players were asking

I wonder what these French 2nd div players are asking for per week.... not a lot!

 

Mistakes were made in the summer undoubtedly. Aidy and Simpson have both alluded to this in media comments. However, I simply can't see what more could have been done in January. Though £6m for Nugent? Even Colin decided he wasn't worth that and I honestly don't think he'd have come here anyway. It's nothing to do with wages, it's all to do with being 20 out of 20 teams I'm afraid. If anything the Young transfer proved that January is not a good time to do proper business, as it's a seller's market. We need to go down, regroup this summer and make some key purchases. More Shittu's, less Seanla's.

 

But you can't compare us to Reading:
1. Coppell was nearly sacked two seasons ago because Reading had failed to reach the Play-Offs. They had also failed the season before. This was actually to their advantage as they were able to build a squad over a number of years - and don't forget, it's easier to attract players to a club near the top of the Championship than at the bottom of the Prem.
2. They are not a similar club to us for one very important reason - they have a sugar-daddy. 'The Madman' has financed Readings' rise, including building a new stadium from scratch. Compare that to us - we can't even build a 6,000 seat stand without taking a £4Mil loan. We are worlds apart.
3. Look at Readings wage structure. Great example - we weren't even in the running to buy Lita when he was available, they could buy him and put him in their reserves. We are not in the same financial league - not even close.

Add in to that the following:
1. Last year we had the 3rd smallest budget in The Championship and were expected to go down by most people. Aidy got us promoted. Our budget is still consideraby less that several teams Championship teams (Birmingham were paying Upson, a defender, £18K a week!)
2. This year (rightly) we have the smallest budget in The Prem BY OVER 3 TIMES! You want us to play silky football? Tell me one of Man Utds 3rd team that wouldn't walk into our first team, come to that, you tell me one of Man Utds 3rd team that we could afford to by and pay.
3. Similar club to compare us to would be Burnley, Stoke, Cardiff, Norwich, Ipswich, Southampton (all of which had FAR bigger budgets than us last year by the way). Would you prefer to be in their positions?

Get some perspective - we shouldn't even be in The Prem, we are a small club who have just scraped out of administration and some of you want us to buy a Prem place?

Appreciate what Aidy did for us last season, take the crap we have to put up with this season (preferable with a smile on your face) and look forward to a future with a club that, until last season, didn't have one. My personal hope for the season was to beat Sunderlands lowest points total from last year and we've equalled that already

 

Agreed, other than the wages bit.

 

Scalex, I appreciate a great deal of what you say about us having a financial disadvantage, but we could have used this season to change that and to build. We just haven't. We now have a larger, but weaker squad than the same time last season. I can't imagine that much will change in teh summer either.

 

I think most of us would have traded 2 good signings for the 8 mediocre ones we got ..... Oh sorry 7 of them are for the future.

 

Well, 4 of them are. Surely Kabba, Cavalli, Williams and Dougie R are for now/next season. But Moses, Hoskins, Cedric A and Williamson are for our next premier Adventure.

 

I think people, probably led by the hand by the media, are overestimating the financial gain of a solitary season in the Premiership. Sure, it's around £32m over the next three years but how much of that do we already have in the bank? £12m of that is parachute payments, of which we have received none yet obviously. And Sky hardly write a cheque for £20m in August. Everythng is paid in installments, even the Ashley Young money. Balance this guaranteed but moderately distant income with our overheads: we've been paying Premiership wages to our squad and staff, increased policing etc etc. You don't go from being a Championship club with dodgy finances to a Premiership money making machine in one season > in fact I'd say it takes at least two - one to soak up all the losses of previous seasons and then anything from season two onwards is 'profit'.

What we needed at the start of this season, more than anything, was luck. And you can't buy that for any amount I'm afraid. In the first 8 games we had a range of things go against us - from the unlucky to the ridiculous. A squad high on confidence was knocked sideways and frankly if there's any confidence left now (aside from the bravado often visible on the website) I'd be shocked. Reading had their first day win from 2-0 to kickstart their season. So to answer KingJames77's main point I guess that's why we gave them the benefit of the doubt for so long. We were all there, we saw how close they were to making it and how luck had simply turned it's back on us. Sure, as I've said previously the summer signings were pretty poor but that wasn't the fault of the XI on the pitch.

From Sheffield United onwards though you can rule out luck or the lack thereof as a factor. We've been dire at times. Absolutely woeful and there's no excuses for that. Players have gone missing, tactics have been baffling, substitutions that are obvious from the stands have never happened and heads have dropped. Now we're in a vicious circle: You need wins to get confidence yet it seems to win you need confidence. Aidy has tried to kickstart our charge several times but I honestly think the players are at rock bottom.

 

Hilarious thread - is it national whinging day?

 

Tommy Smith is rubbish on the whinge!

 

I don't think I have ever read more sense posted all in one place on a message board.

 

nonsense indeed hornmeister.

 

A lot of sense talked! Where do you think we would be if we were still in the fizzy pop this season? Sadly I think we'd be having the same discussion and looking over our shoulders at the 1st division. Did Aidy benefit from a lot of good work put in by Lewington?

 

Part one - TOP

Part two - errrrrrrrrrrr - didn't aidy get rid of the whole entire ray squad? - the benifit obviously was aidy's as he didn't keep them.

 

Perry how is it non-sense? At least give reasons to back up what you say! I think this thread is about spot on!

 

Breifly Bubbly - why i think there is a lack of sense in this thread is -

Many are pushing this seasons failure on to next season which has even started yet. This already happened from last seasons success, we based this season on that and that we would be good enough to stay up, albeit a struggle. I, at the start of the season thought we were capable of doing what Reading have done but i was very wrong, we lack the ability required for this level( and some of our play in the first 8 games we could have but we did not move on and get better), the inevetible happened, our lack of depth in the squad and inexperience has left us in this position. No matter who we signed in January we would not survive, so i feel its ludicrous to suggest £6 million on Nugent and everything will be ok plus the other £4 million player. People speak of macanuff and Edwards- they wouldn't keep us up - if uptheduff was that good, Crystals Palarse would be top or there abouts.

What i feel is that the ridiculing of the squad now for their performance this season is unjust, they have worked hard and grafted and wore the shirt with pride MOST OF THE GAMES.

The additions we have just brought in, strengthens our depth and gives competition to places - this will bode very well for next season. We now have Feb -Aug to gel this squad into a force, which i feel outside the premiership is as good a squad as any team has.

ITS NOT THE PLAYERS FAULT - they are picked to play and instructed to play in a system. ITS not AIDY'S fault - he is a young inexperienced manager who has a wonderful but scary way of doing things - we have to back him as he got us to the premeirship agianst all the odds.

We cant blame the chairman - had he not releived Ray of his duties, ( we may have gone down, we would probably not have gone up, if Ray had kept us from relegation and we would all be quite happy having a season where we are not struggling to avoid relegation to league one, we may even have had a reasonable season under Ray and reach the play offs - the fans would have been over the moon with that.

Why are so many small family business going down the swany? because the big boys are gobbling them up the dirty barstewards. How can a small family run business compete with tesco's, asda etc etc etc. They can't. And that is the level of difference between CHELSEA< MANURE< ARSENAL< LIVERPOOL< NOW VILLA to the rest of us. We cannot compete, we have to do wih the stock we have and sometimes find a bargain price product and make good with that.Which we did with Marlon last season. That is why Aidy continues as he is. Hoskins will be a good one for the future and so will Tamas - good stock but not yet assets.

The future is more bright, more colourful and more exciting han at any other time during my support of WFC - i really feel the step back is insignificant to the future of the club and in the ned will be of benefit to us.
Apologies for pelling etc, i am not re reading.

U ORNSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

I agree there is a lot of sense to this thread and perspective too I think.

I know you are a fan Perry but I don't agree on many of the points you make. That includes the instant return to the Prem based on what we now have. Obviously I hope so but the second tier is never there for the taking, no matter how much money you have. And I don't think people are ridiculing the squad, more offering an opinion on it as I believe we are entitled to do as fans and supporters (in more ways than one). Whether perceived or genuine, some players don't appear to be giving their all at the moment for whatever reason. You'll surely accept that that is unacceptable to many fans.

You are right I think though about buying (or rather attempting to buy) players like Nugent for £6m in January. Pointless. Although I thought that about Collins John for £3.25m too.

On the subject of when the Prem money really comes through, there should be added to the pot the sold-out season tickets and greater numbers through the turnstiles, corporate and shop takings etc. Perhaps not enough to offset the increased costs on their own but when listing the greater liabilities, it's only fair to mention the increased revenue, short, medium and long term.

 

Which players?

Francis we can readily agree on.

Maybe Macca....although he perhaps should have been given more games.

And.....?

 

Good post mate, I do agree with alot of what you said there!

I'm annoyed with the team for not performing against Sheff utd, Liverpool and Bolton this season at home...all these 3 teams were there for the taking and beatable at home...if they had given 150% but just lacked that quality then fair enough, no complaints from me...sadly they didn't compete, they didn't fight and they didn't do the basic things right! Just basically didn't turn up...you can blame Aidy for picking the team/tactics but at the end of the day team selection/tactics contribute nothing to doing the simple things like: tracking back, marking, tackling and fighting!

You mentioned yesterday about how poorly we played against teams at home last season (Millwall, Brighton and Plymouth)...as you well know, in the Championship you get teams that sit back and defend, they don't come out to play so we have to break them down...the one player that could have done this for us last season (Ashley Young) was missing against Brighton and Plymouth...we didn't have enough flair/quality in the side to win these sort of games...and that is my main worry for next season! We'll be favourites for a top 6 finish next season and teams will come to Vic Road to play deep and defend...i don't think we have enough invention/quality in our current set-up to break down stuborn Championship sides let alone Prem sides! This is why I think in the summer Aidy needs to rebalance the squad, turf players out that are average (keep a few as back-up) and bring in more quality!

I think McAnuff and Edwards are better than Smith, I think Aidy should have made more of an effort to get one of them...but he likes to sign players on the cheap...you can't do this in the Prem!

As for his activities in January, can you see what he's trying to do? Because I can't! He's overloaded the midfield/rest of squad with AVERAGE Championship players!

I don't think the squad needed 8 extra players...it needed 3-4 players that add more quality to what we have already! Aidy was always one for saying 'i will only add players to the squad that improve what we have'...i don't think he's done this (but time will tell)! I'd rather he had signed no one and re-addressed it in the summer for another go at promotion! I think there is alot of 'fat' to be cut off this summer from the squad, and I just worry that we've gone backwards/started again from how we started this season! (Aidy admitted at the start of the season we were 'almost there' in terms of being a decent prem side...we just needed a player or two to add extra quality)!

As for the style of play...i think it seemed to work WHEN we had King in the side to play direct football because both He and Henderson are good physical strikers that compliment eachother well! We had no plan B though to back us up if King got injured (he did and we're paying for it)! Our football is one dimensional and predictable!

I worry that Aidy isn't sure how we should play, i also worry he doesn't know which is his best team because now he has too many options!

I'll feel alot happier if he clears alot of average players out in the summer and brings in decent players in certain areas! We really need a squad of 25 seniors and the rest decent youth team players! 2 players for each outfield positon and 3 keepers would be the right sized squad (in my opinion)!

In terms of our 'overall' future looking good compared to a few years ago, I can only agree and say i'm excited about it! Players like Parkes, Robinson, Forrester, Lewis Young, Liam Henderson etc doing well in the youth team aswell as the money we've made on promotion is brilliant for the club! Couldn't have asked for a better season last year, beyond my wildest dreams, I think we came up too early though...think that's a fact!

I'm happy to take the money though and try again next season...i think if Aidy does the above (what i've typed in regards to the squad) there is no reason why we can't come back up and try again and learn from our mistakes!

U ornssssssss

 

steveh - the point i am making badly, is that people are reacting on the squad now and saying its not good enough for next season.

IN my eyes we have got rid off -

Ash
Springy

who were big parts of our promotion.

we have added:

Noddy
Dan shittu
Francis ( underperforming and disappointing this season)
Hoskins
Tamas - ( better than having joel grant)
Moses - ( Better than having theo, but Theo looks a good future prospect)


we will hopefully have

marlon and clarke back

we will lose Bozo.

the rest of the squad that got us to the premeirship are still here -

the young players may be being shown up and look like they are not good enough, but they are young and will learn from the experience.

Jordan Stewart and Gav - IMO have improved imensley in this league - with Jordan that is a bonus for next season.

Added to this the possibilty of procuring a new keeper whetehr first choice or back, also getting in able wingers for the championship league -

I really cannot see how people are so gloomy about our prospects next season.

I fully understand that teams find it hard to bounce back - but that is moe often than not due to the breaking up of a squad and the loss of a manger and teams starting over.

W are not starting over - that happened when Ray left - we are building - and ths building will not collapse and will grow to be a big building and tower high and proud amongst the elite where really a small club like WFC should not be any where near.

It takes time to build a Tower - a tent can be put up and pulled down over night.

 

Francis definitely (although I was impressed with him against Blackburn especially)

Smith is the other main culprit at the moment for me. Not in every game obviously, but in too many lately.

 

Lest you forget we were missing Bouazza and Young for the Sheff Utd game and I think Aidy was also partly to blame for making too many unenforced changes (replacing both full backs, changing the formation to 4-5-1 - it should have been the same one at Portsmouth after Bouazza came off with Priskin partnering Hendo) - there was no shortage of effort or fight, just a severe lack of quality.

The other two I agree with - in a sense the Bolton one was more worrying because at least Liverpool are a quality side, however Bolton were clearly there for the taking and we just didn't seem to have the belief or even desire to fight our way back into the game after they scored.