I think Gino will fancy his chances of revamping the defence in January and keeping us up. But yes it's true, he made school boy errors this summer that mean we could well be doomed.
Anyone doing mental gymnastics to work out how we are going to survive, should just embrace the inevitable.
It usually takes Allerdyce a few games to turn round a sinking ship and whatever u think about him, he's the master of PL survival.
Where's this idea that we were 'expected to lose our last three games' come from?! Arsenal and City, yes, City in particular, but the only reason we would have been 'expected' to lose against Wolves is how pathetically we've acquitted ourselves in the matches leading up to it, and even then most did in fact not expect us to lose until we actually started watching the 'performance' our boys bothered to serve up. We beat Wolves two out of the three times we played them last season, and competed directly with them throughout, so you can't claim they were some kind of free hit that Quique gets to take no responsibility whatsoever for; particularly considering how limply they themselves played, added to the fact that they were in 19th place when the match kicked off. It was our own failings that led to their victory; it's not like they overwhelmed us with quality, and that has to be taken into account.
Wolves pulled away from us after we unexpectedly beat them in the cup - and won easily at the Vic. People on here commenting on the three games after Javi was sacked almost unanimously posted that these were three difficult games. The fact that Wolves European adventure has given them the usual problem does not prevent them being better than us at the moment. How much money did Watford fans have on us winning away to them again this year?
This is exactly the situation. You are totally right. It's the difference between going into a fight half heartedly and fighting for your life. In our first 4 seasons we fought like Russians/Afghans/ Vietnamese from the first whistle until we were well on the road to safety. This season we are fighting like French/Italians. None of this is Sarr's fault and good luck to the kid but if we'd used the 40 mil to increase the Rose offer and buy a decent central defender we'd be in a better position. I believe the marketing bullsh1t and massive exaggerations about our potential have caught up with the club and affected the mentality. We should always be focussed on fighting for survival, anything else is a bonus. Once we stop fighting we are screwed. We've stopped fighting and we look screwed.
Sorry, what? Where's this come from? Not having loads of money on us winning away at Wolves is not in any way the same as the match objectively being one we were 'expected to lose', and it's also not entirely the point, because that idea is being used to suggest that we can't have learned anything about Quique and our prospects under him because of the three matches, when that is just not the case. Even in the case of City, we were expected to lose, of course, but we were also facing them under their worst defensive crisis under Pep and we got absolutely ******* brutalised. I don't think anyone was 'expecting' quite what actually happened, if we're honest. They only fielded one professional centre back, their worst one, and we ******* let him score against us whilst coasting to a lovely clean sheet and the second worst defeat ever recorded in the Prem. Even that must be taken into consideration, when what we are considering is the impact the new coach has had.
Wolves away was not a free hit - I mean they were 19th in the league without a win all season and fatigued by European football. Wolves did not easily beat us at the vicaridge road last season they won due to a goalkeeping blunder by Ben Foster with about 10 minutes left of the match when it was 1-1 and fairly even. If that is free hit then I might as well say Sheffield United at home is one too. They have been seriously good this season winning away to Everton, drawing away to Chelsea and losing at home to Liverpool 1-0 when they played really well. Results we dream of at the moment. I am guessing upcoming away fixtures to Tottenham and Chelsea are free hits too while the promoted clubs who we are hoping will finish below us would fight for a result at those venues. We brought in QSF purely due to his ability to organise the defence and therby improve results I expect as a panic option. We concede 2 at home to Arsenal while only conceding one ( with 10 men for nearly the entire match) last season at home. We concede 8 at Man City while only conceding 3 there last season including conceding only 6 in the FA cup final - which is still too many but the point is our defensive woes continue. We concede two away to Wolves when we won 2-0 there last season. Those saying dont worry about QSF give it time. I am sorry but I have not noticed any improvement in our defence which was the purpose of the change of manager.
I don’t have time to embrace anything right now. Too busy trying to work out how Norwich will be docked points and when Burnley will be obliterated by an until-now dormant volcano.
OK - we were 2-0 down and heading for out - I did not expect us to get back into it but pleased you did. I have tried to find posts saying we would win at Wolves before they fell to second bottom but have not found any - did I miss them? People arguing about getting rid of Javi seemed to think we were going to lose those three matches. If I got that wrong sorry - I am not trying to upset anyone. I was just making a point that we had three difficult games to start for QSF.
Well at least Newcastle are awful too. If we can move up to 15/16th and Newcastle are rock bottom by Jan I’d love us to try and take Lascelles for £20 million. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Will Ashley care that much if they’re rock bottom by Jan? How much would they get for a Championship Lascelles? But included to agree.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But see my post a few up, he’s been parachuted in to a dire situation, we can’t necessarily expect instant results. I’m not actually saying he will turn it around but equally it’s not inconceivable that he might not turn it around instantly if he is to do so. The new manager bounce is a bit of a myth, it normally only applies when players have completely stopped playing for the manger, such as Utd under Jose, or if you’ve got someone completely out of their depth in charge like Unsworth at Everton. We experienced a slow decline under Javi, we were not completely and utterly terrible but we were coasting into trouble. He had the same bad defence Quique has and the players hadn’t completely stopped playing for him. In our situation I think it will be incredibly difficult for Quique to make an immediate impact.
Lascelles is giving his post-match interview and it's both a hell of a lot more impressive that anything that's come out of the mouth of any of our players, who have been far more embarrassed, and pretty effectively describing our own situation to boot.
Damn. Having just seen pictures of Burnley, it appears the volcano erupted some time ago. So that one’s out.
In defence of Welbeck (More of a defence here than our actual defence) he looks like a decent player v Wolves, a lack of service isn't his fault and what chances he did have caused problems for them. I agree with your other two points though. We've been calling for some meaningful defensive investment since 2016 but we got Craig Dawson instead, a Championship defender who was out of form when we bought him and is now out of his depth and out of form now. Hooray. re: Sarr he is a luxury signing; one we don't have the luxury of bedding in properly as we can't afford passengers right now.
I put our chance of survival at 60-40 in our favour . Lots of games left to go , with anyone from Sheff Utd down in the mix . Newcastle look awful as do Watford and Wolves . The rest look half decent , but there are a lot of games left with plenty of time for teams to hit bad runs.
I thought Welbeck showed a few glimpses of what he’s capable of. If he can get a run of games injury free, I think he’ll get goals for us. You can see that he’s just not quite there in terms of match sharpness, but the little roll he did followed by the curled attempt was something none of our other strikers could pull off. He also had a few lovely flicks and held the ball up well at times, along with attacking the ball in the air. His performance was nothing to get particularly excited about, but given the circumstances of his injuries and our own shocking performance, I saw enough in him to think that if he’s able to stay fit for a decent spell, he’ll become an important part of our survival bid.
Agreed. It was quite clear to me that he's our most talented striker (not that that's saying much I know!)
I don’t understand why people have persistently been saying we were expected to lose at Wolves. We won the same fixture last year and they had nothing like the same level of confidence this. I certainly didn’t think Saturday’s game was an automatic defeat, although the players’ attitude seemed to suggest they did.
I’ve just remembered our players only amassed one yellow card between them on Saturday (Holebas, natch). To my mind that’s appalling and shows just how annoyed they weren’t.
Wolves attempted more tackles, committed more fouls and got booked more. Not sure if you can take anything from that but yeah.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Will we even have any funds available in January after the Sarr outlay? Might have to do it through a couple of loans.
Prodl was always a risk. His history of injuries prior to joining Watford was awful. He was slow at 25. Cathcart is Championship at best. Mariappa is Championship/League One. Dawson as above, but slower. Our defence is poor, slow and lacks confidence. No leader in the team. No one to score goals. A lazy midfield. We have lost our way. We reached our peak last season. I think the January market will be too late and we could be down by then. Joao Pedro needs to be a superstar if he is going to save Watford. Given the situation now, will Watford sell him before Jan? Joao surname is Jesus, we need divine intervention in order to stay up. The fee for Sarr was reported to be closer to €19-20 million in l'equipe paper
Is Pedro coming in January or not? Seems to be uncertain either way on that. Be surprised if Sarr only cost that much as Rennes were pretty determined to get 30 million plus. Instalments and add ones I guess. Good points about the defence.
I've watched the Sky extended highlights this morning. What strikes me is that we fall for the same move over and over again. The opposition play a ball behind our wing back, it gets crossed in low and there's a player unmarked waiting to side foot it home. It's just crazy. Why can't we defend this situation better? How often do we score a goal like this? I can't remember one. We concede a goal like this in nearly every game. Wolves' first goal, the goal against Swansea, god knows how many Man City scored of this type, but it was more than once, Arsenal's second goal, West Ham and Brighton also. The only games where we've not conceded a goal like this was against Everton, Newcastle and Coventry. Also, I think it would be good if the club actually broke their secret code for once and made public what they actually spent on Sarr. Everyone is banding the £40m tag, and when you see him play, that's looks just ridiculous. If we've only really spent around £20m with add-ons, then it would take a bit of pressure of him. At £40m fans will expect something a bit special. He's certainly not that, not yet anyway, and I think if we knew he was actually signed for a significantly lower price people would be a little more understanding. I've still not witnessed this electric pace either. He seems to be the same pace as every other player. He's not had the impact of Richarlison. We seem to be ponderous in building attacks. We take far too many touches in the build up. It allows the opposition to get back into position and there are always too many bodies in the way for us to be able to shoot and create good chances. Wolves didn't threaten too much, but when they did, their movement was fast and dynamic. They created quite a lot of good chances by moving the ball quickly. Luckily (not that it really mattered in the end), most of their shots were wide of the target. Watford are the worst team in the league. The table tells us that, we've scored the least amount of goals and conceded the most. We are the worst team in every measurable area.
All the table says is we currently have the least points. If all teams have not played the same opponents you don't know which team is worst. Say we had only played the top six and another had only played the bottom six - would you think you were comapring like for like?
To go on your point, that would mean you cannot look at the table until the season has finished, as that would be the only true reflection of the league. I don't agree with that. The table is a fair reflection. There's no other measure to go on. We've played two top six clubs out of 7 games. We've played also two crap sides in Newcastle and Brighton. One side who were nervous in Wolves and two teams who would be considered a top 10 finisher. I think it has been a tough, but well balanced representation of the league with good, bad and indifferent opponents played so far.
I take your point but was simply pointing out your assertion was too simple. The longer the season goes on the more likely most teams have played most others at least once so the table becomes better and better at showing us which team is better or worse. I do agree we probably ARE the worst side at the moment but 7 games is not enough to be quite so definitive.
