Lose against Sheffield Utd, and we are as good as down. Most important game for years. I think the fans need to get right behind the team for this one at least.
I do agree with your main point. From a tactical stance I would think it is suicide playing Dawson and Cathcart together. I had a long chat with a friend who was returning from the game and he said they 'got in behind us' with alarming ease. Grim times. See you Saturday.
I’m starting to think that our 7 good CMs is a myth. Doucoure and capoue play irrespective of form. Surely if the others were as good as we all think they would get dropped?
I'm suspicious you're not a hornets supporter with comments like that ..Hughes has been one of best players over the last six months with the exception of the odd blip here and there - which happens to most players. I'm more concerned that I haven't seen Doucoure on form for a while - hardly any surging runs through the middle.
I like Hughes but he has been constantly played out of position and has been ineffective in my view. We will be building the team round him in a central spot if we do get relegated.
I was talking about the bit where you’ve said we’ve been hanging on for grim death in the last two seasons! Last season in particular couldn’t be further from the truth Can you also provide evidence of Gino touting for money in the City or have you made that up?
It is - I was saying last season that we had quantity more than quality there, and if Capoue or Doucoure got tired. injured or sold then we'd notice it. Doucoure and Capoue have generally (until recently) been excellent, but then there's a big dropoff from them to the next set of CMs - Hughes hasn't got the strength, pace or stamina, Chalobah is a shadow of his former self, Quina is still very young and gives the ball away a lot, Cleverley has been okay but nothing more. We are better covered in that position than in others, but it's not fantastic either.
We're not actually in disagreement here, I was pleased to see the change in formation today. Welbeck, Sarr and Deulofeu should all be starting. However I don't think that Doucs, Holebas, Dawson and possibly Foster who are all experienced players and should be leaders in this squad are pulling their weight. QSF is getting there I think but we need some hunger - players on the verge of breaking into the team. Quina is a must, sadly Wilmot got sent away to not even play at Swansea but I would have him in this team in a heartbeat. No doubt at all the Gracia and now QSF have been let down by recruitment. Duxbury claiming he wants us to be best of the rest followed by scratching his arse all summer is not a good look.
I brought up about Duxbury's comments about being 'best of the rest' in the summer not being reflected in the transfer market when all the usual suspects thought this season was going to be amazing. I was told he's a liar and I was stupid for believing him. So are you.
Breaking it down to the bleeding obvious but our problem is conceding cheap goals early. We conceded after 18 minutes yesterday, the amount of corners and possession we then had afterwards is completely and utterly irrelevant. Despite their prior league position Wolves are a good side, give them a one goal start and they can happily sit back, give us the ball in the middle and soak up any pressure. The stats become meaningless it’s the context of them having the lead that is the important part. Giving the lead away so early in every single game we’ve played (Newcastle aside) completely changes the dynamic of the game. It just becomes attack against defence rather than being a more open game, it then exposes our weak defence even more on the break. Our defence is bad don’t get me wrong, but it will look twice as bad when we are chasing a game. Again it’s stating the bleeding obvious but we just need to go back to basics, forget about scoring and focus on keeping a clean sheet up to at least 60 minutes. That way our attack will eventually find it easier because the game will be more open.
Our problem is our owners got giddy after last season and forgot who we were. We got ideas above our station and became consumed by the Sarr affair. Acting like billy big balls with our ludicrous £40m bids has been our undoing. That bidding war has ****ed us totally. The Rennes owner has well and truly shafted our club. You can blame gracia for not speaking out about the state of our defence, but he may well have done. No one in a position of authority would have listened anyway. Out predicament is squarely down to our owners. Yes our players are gutless and lack the heart for relegation battle, but the owners and the fans have always known that. You can't really blame them for not being able to change their characters now. In hindsight it was obvious that as soon as the target stopped being just staying up we'd go down. Even the pundits forgot we were tinpot little watford so who can blame the owners really. We lack the mentality of an established Premier league club. The world record 6-0 Cup final thrashing was a clue. That's the difference between a club like Palace and us. They had the belief they would get out of the chit last season when they were adrift. My feeling is we do not.
Agree with much of this. Palace, however, are a very similar sized club to us. Why would they believe where we don't?
My view is as per my post but somewhere in the middle of yours. As has been posted elsewhere, our defence is largely the same as last season and we had an excellent start back then. Yes the players are all one year older but I don’t think they’ve got that bad in one year. My personal view is that we now feel we have to attack in games more than we did previously, we’ve got some great attacking players so feel we have to take the game to the opposition exposing our weak defence. Essentially we’ve lost the balance between attack and defence. I think the first half of the Arsenal game is a good example, yes we were the home team but Arsenal are better than us. They didn’t really bother to attack, yet they picked us off at will so easily. As per my post above our focus now needs to be in keeping it tight and not conceding a goal, scoring should be secondary. The game will eventually open up and it will be easier. Our defence is weak of that there is no doubt, but has it really gone from being a top 8 defence (for the majority of last season) to rock bottom in just one year??
I don't think they do particularly. The atmosphere at Selhurst Park has never struck me as anything special. The Holmesdale enders stuck in their corner giving it large just like the 1881. An 'atmosphere' that kicks off a bit if they score or are getting on top. Same as at the Vic. then. Or anywhere else for that matter.
Also I would say the away game against Wolves last season was probably one of the best if not our best performance last season. We out Wolved Wolves. As bad as our defence is has it really deteriorated that badly in one year?
As disappointing as yesterday was I would stick with the same team for the next game with possibly Kabasele coming in and maybe Quina. Yesterdays team was what most people had been hoping for and we need to get some continuity in team selections to allow partnerships to build. Keep the front 3 of Welbeck, Sarr and Delefeou to allow them to start understanding each others game considering that was the first time they've started together. Same goes for the back 4. We need a settled back 4 for a few games to try and get them working as a mini team. Yes we have not spent enough on the defence but I fail to see how we've gone from a side chasing 7th and getting to a cup final in April to a side many think will get relegated come next May. We cannot be that bad and for it's a confidence thing which is something QSF and his team need to instil and very quickly. I do believe the players care, I just think they are suffering from that lack of confidence which allows you to try things, hit passes with conviction, make runs, take shots etc I don't have the answer but boycotting the club is definitely not an option
I agree with this in principle but I doubt we have the quality of defenders to carry it out. I think it was hb1 who said recently we need to take the lead in games to have a chance of winning and that’s absolutely right. If we try to sit back with a ‘tight’ defence we run the risk of conceding and then having to chase the game again. Our greater assets are in attack so we need to take the game to the opposition from the start. The problem yesterday was that we did neither. In the first half the players did nothing to try and disrupt Wolves, who were a side low on confidence themselves, and when we did have possession of the ball the build-up to an attack was so slow. It seems like every member of the defence has to have a touch before we attempt to get the ball over the half-way line. In the meantime the opposition are all nicely in position waiting behind the ball and wondering what they’re going to have for their tea. Capoue, I’m afraid, is the biggest culprit in this slowing down of the attacks. The frustrating thing is we know these players can do it, because they did against Arsenal. The second half was slightly better with Pereyra’s urgency but by then it was too late because we had handed the initiative to Wolves.
Although results have been disappointing, before last week's pumping by City I don't think we have performed particularly badly (OK, against Brighton and maybe Newcastle we were a bit 5h1t). But now all confidence seems to have gone. At no stage did I feel we were going to get anything out of the game yesterday - which, given the quality we have (and, I don't care what anyone says, Delefeu, Pereyra, Wellbeck, Capoue, Docoure, are top players) - is worrying.
We weren't the only team to splash out on an attacking player this summer though - Everton signed Iwobi for £35mil, Leicester spent £30mil on Perez, West Ham spent £40mil on Haller and £24mil on Fornals, Newcastle signed Joelinton for £40mil and Saint-Maximin for £22mil, Villa paid £22mil for Wesley. Arsenal also paid £72mil for Pepe, who is older than Sarr and whose stats in Ligue 1 last season weren't that much better. Also, depending on where you look the fee for Sarr was anything from £25mil to £40mil. Certainly if it ever reaches £40mil it will be because of add-ons, which given our current state are unlikely to be reached. In light of those other transfers this summer, the Sarr signing in and of itself doesn't seem crazy or that excessive a fee. We did need a right winger, and there wouldn't have been many better options out there for us than Sarr, even at the price given the market. He's not been great so far, but it's still early days and I reckon most players would look crap in our current dejected team. Not many of the other lavish signings I've mentioned above have done much yet this season either. Now, the more pertinent question is not whether we overpaid for Sarr, but whether we should have used the money elsewhere. It does seem pretty clear now that we should have prioritised defensive signings, splashing out on a CB and taking a punt on a budget right-winger as opposed to vice versa. We did try and sign a left-back, but left that too late - maybe that was because we wasted too much time on Sarr, or perhaps because the club only realised after a few weeks of training and fitness sessions that Holebas was done. We've shown in the past that we are capable of signing multiple players quickly, or consecutively, so I'm not convinced that Sarr was the massive distraction you're trying to claim. You're re-writing history there, we were doing fine until the Wolves semi-final. Tinpot little Watford without the mentality of an established Premier League club would not have landed Pereyra and Deulofeu.
It's not so much the price tag, it's more the fact the whole saga seemed to dominate to the neglect of everything else. Regarding our mentality, what I mean is it seems to me we spent the summer looking up and preparing to be the 'best of the rest', rather than focusing on fighting tooth and nail for every point to ensure we stay up. We absolutely went into the Brighton game arrogantly thinking we'd swat them aside.
To your eyes maybe it seemed to dominate - but that was mostly due to the fact that it was delayed a long time due to Senegal reaching the final of the AFCON and the press kept regurgitating rumours and insinuations until he was actually announced. The constant press mutterings, including Sarr supposedly already telling his teammates that he was joining us right at the beginning of the tournament, suggested that a deal was always on the cards and it was more a case of when not if (and so not something for the club to panic much about). As for your second point, that's tough to say. Sure, no doubt we would have been aiming to be best of the rest, but given that we had started this season in the same manner that we ended the previous one, it indicates that perhaps there was some lingering doubt and fragile confidence about the place (despite the unsurprisingly upbeat PR).
Of course taking the lead would be even better, but I think breaking it down we just need to stop conceding cheap early goals. We are doing it in every game and it completely changes the dynamic. It almost becomes a training ground exercise. I saw it posted elsewhere but I generally believe our full backs are the weak link, the centre backs albeit limited are all capable of doing their job. How many goals are conceded because Holebas is out of position for an example. They just need it drilled into them to defend first and foremost and for that to be their priority, then players like Pereyra Capoue and Doucoure need to support them. I know it’s overly simplistic but if we keep conceding early we will be relegated with a record low points total, if things are to change we have to stop conceding goals first, it’s as simple as that, so therefore in my mind that has to be our absolute priority now in any game if we are to stand a chance of getting anything out of a game. I remember our first 5 or so games under QSF last time around. Cagey, turgid but ultimately effective in not conceding and not losing. That is precisely what we need right now.
Yeah you may well be right. I do think one decent win will kick start our season so I haven't given up hope. We aren't rooted to the bottom just yet and aside from Liverpool and City, teams are much of a muchness this season so we have hope against the likes of Chelsea and man united. If we could just beat sheff utd 3 nil or so I think we might just be OK.
We were terrible against west ham, at least defensively. We huffed and puffed up front but didn't really make enough happen, but then we were carved open at will by them. Not really sure where, apart from 2nd half vs arsenal we've been anything other than dire or terrible.
It can just take one year though - look at Prodl's rapid decline once he hit 30. Our defence was also never a top 8 defence - last season it was more a bottom 6 defence, with a top 6 midfield, and bottom half strike force.
Yep. 2 of Haller's 3 goals so far this season were against us. Teams (and players) have all been managing to magically rediscover their shooting boots when playing against us.
I'm not sure we needed a right winger, and certainly not a 40m one at that. We didn't play with wingers last season and of all the areas to address, it seemed at the time, and has been proved in hindsight to be a ridiculously poor ordering of priorities by our recruitment team. It's beyond stupid to have looked at that side last season and thought that the biggest area for improvement was the right wing, so let's spend the bulk of our resources on that.
I think Sarr is the new Gray, people have forgotten we paid £18m for him now because things have moved on. Now Sarr was a big waste of money because we spent £30m on him. As sad as it is that isn’t a lot of money in this day and age, I’d say it’s par for the course. We still dig around for the bargains that might come good (Quina, the young lad from City) but the more proven players just cost more now. Wether that money should’ve been spent on the defence is a different point entirely and with the benefit of hindsight I’d be inclined to say it should’ve been. Obviously we paid a lot less for Richarlison but he got plenty of criticism from us, he looked far from the real deal on many occasions yet we still sold him for me than we paid for Sarr.
I've said this before, but playing Hughes on the right was a square peg in a round hole, and done so out of necessity for having zero other options for that position, rather than by choice. Pereyra was most certainly a left winger, so your comment that "we didn't play with wingers last season" is misleading. We also occasionally tried Sema on the right, who is also a winger (albeit a crap but hardworking one). I do agree with you that we should have used our resources more on buying a quality CB (I did say that in my above response to relegation certs), but a RW was needed as well.
We had deolefeu. If we needed a genuine wide man, we had one of our best attackers Taylor made for the role, but we played him up front where he was filling in for our lack of a decent number 9. We needed defenders and strikers. That was what we needed. That was what everyone in the stands knew and expected. That we got a crocked veteran, the worst centre back in premier league history and a young lad who might be good enough in two years, but cost 40m is, frankly, insane.
