I agree with that can't see them both being here, hoping to god it's Deeney who'll be staying. https://twitter.com/_sfjb1/status/854803036950204416
Probably a little harsh. An ok footballer but not as good as some think he is. Fair play for his comments though
Not sure I can recall him being solely/majorly responsible for any goals conceded (but I haven't thought that hard). I like his style and where would we be without the three points he won us at Middleborough ?
It's weird that I find myself agreeing with you as I rarely do, but I am here. The only thing I'd change with what you've written (and I know you've acknowledged that it's a multifactorial problem we have here) is that if we need to change, we need a near-complete overhaul, with the head coach and quite a lot of the players. You're right in saying that changing the players isn't enough if we have a poor head coach as they'll start to perform badly, but it's also true to say that if we leave the vast vast majority of the players alone and just change the head coach, things will inevitably pan out in the same way they have done for the past few seasons (bar Watford with Jokanovic at the helm, and even then there were still player-head coach disputes etc). I genuinely believe that if WM goes this summer and we get in another head coach (be it Ranieri, Mancini or any other manager with some kind of pedigree), we'll have a similar/slightly worse season like this one and the one before, with the same problems coming to the fore again. You're definitely right, something drastic needs to happen, but it can't be one or the other. IMO, we've got a head coach who (even though I still want to give him a bit more time) has clearly lost the players, we've got a captain who's seemingly more focused with doing interviews for the media and having a strop on the pitch when things don't go our way than actually leading by example or motivating his teammates, and they're both surrounded by players who (for the most part) are either strolling around the pitch without a care in the world, are too unfit to bust a lung for at least 75 minutes or don't have much tactical awareness. There are very few players in our side that I would genuinely praise, like Gomes, Prodl, Cleverley and Doucoure. I'm not sure about the others though. FWIW, I don't care for WM in or out, because that's only part of the problem here. Also, don't have me down for an ungrateful person or a person with extravagantly high expectations because in my mind, I just wanted us to stay up within the first two seasons. Didn't care how, I just wanted us to stay up- and we've achieved that. However, I'm looking into the future now because any club in their third consecutive season in the Prem should start to progress a bit. There are some promising signs, like the fact that we are able to get some quality players like Niang, Pereyra and Cleverley (yes I know what you're thinking, but for the role that he has, I think he's a quality player). However, there are also quite a few things that we're seeing now on and off the pitch that will definitely hinder our progress if we let them continue. I don't want us to end up like a Palace, a team that in their third and fourth consecutive seasons brought in top quality players like Cabaye, Mandanda, Zaha, Benteke and Remy, yet had players who don't care and didn't want to perform along with a manager that is crap and ends up getting replaced before the team somehow galvanises itself to scrape staying up. That's not progress and that pathway only has one trajectory- relegation.
It seems to me that as a smallish club seen as more likely to go downwards than upwards, we have a choice between players who are highly skilled but not strongly motivated or players less skilled who will bust a gut for the team. GT and Burnley would go for the latter, the Pozzos have gone for the former. Maybe a few more sleeves-rolled-up guys would be the best solution, if they could motivate the others. Two I would certainly shed are Holebas and Capoue. Capoue went round with Deeney and Gomes to milk the applause after his winning goal against Swansea, but he's not normally that bothered. And did you see the clip of that goal and the celebrations afterwards? Holebas just took up his position for the restart without a flicker of emotion of any kind.
When we win ..... Silence re manager/Or "where are the Maz haters now"? /prolonged petty squabbles between forum users. When we lose..... "Maz out", complete and utter Farkin meltdown/ prolonged petty squabbles between forum users.
Okay, your idea of a forum sounds better. Let's forget we support our football club and not debate the things that are happening. Pickford.
I have a question, not that it really matters now but the stream I was watching said their first goal the whole of the ball never crossed the line! Did I dream that or is this the case? I thought all premier League teams now have this tech as standard?
Something I find interesting is that whatever view we have on owners, manager and players we all care about our club - otherwise we would not come on here to debate. I am not sure the same can be said for the manager or some of the players. The sad thing is I do not see much difference whether the manager of the players stay or go next year. If Mazz goes we will have another wholesale changeover of the players, coaching staff etc and can expect exactly what we have had the past two years. Might get lucky and play better football (could it be much worse?) but unlikely to get many more points in what would become our third "first season". If he stays and injuries subside will we see a bit more stability and cohesion - I am not sure. I cannot see our team under Mazz become entertaining or becoming predictable in its results. The only thing I could see that would significantly change is if we somehow managed to find a brilliant manager - either up and coming like GT was when we got him - or very experienced and just below the very top level. I am not sure the Pozzos can get that sort of manager - and if they did they would need to commit to serious player spend as I cannot see a top man developing our current squad further.
I'm very angry that we won't qualify for Europa this season. CL spots , let alone title winners seems a long long way off . What ARE they doing up at London Colney ever day . It's an absolute joke .
Not sure how it was watching it on a little lap top screen with your trousers round your ankles, but at the actual match all I saw was an arrogant team just expecting the goals to come without putting any effort in, and another team fighting for their lives to stay up. Yes it was infuriating but not something worth the meltdown on here over. If we'd scored one of the chances we had in the first half it would have been a comfortable win. Overall it was a decent day out, apart from the match. But that's the case with most aways. Not that any of you ***** would know anything about that.
Is the best defence of Maz that he's not the whole problem? I'm not reading anywhere that he should stay because he's good at his job.
TBH I think that wanting a bit of continuity (and whether we would bring in someone better) is the only reason why I'm not shouting that he should go. I am really struggling to find other reasons why he should stay.
The problem with Watford is one of attitude. Games like yesterday have been common place this season and will continue to be so, until we hire someone that can create something resembling a cohesive team. The players we have are technically superior to anything we've ever had in our history, but they do lack that hunger and desire. It does not seem to be there naturally in many. I think it comes from signing players that are used to the big lights. Signing players from Juventus, AC Milan or some other top European side is all very well, but Watford could be seen as a come down. Sure the salary is great and so is the lure of Premier League football, but how motivating is it playing for Watford when you've played for a much bigger club? I'm throwing this out there as I believe it's part of our problem. We need a coach that can motivate comfortable players. We need a coach that can inspire collectively as well as have a personal connection 1 to 1 with every player in the squad. I've seen no evidence that this is happening at Watford. Yesterday was a disgrace. Watford competed at 0-0 and created a couple of chances which should have been taken. Just reverse the situation, had we been fighting for our lives and had a soft red card, how would we have responded? I doubt we would have dominated the opposition and coasted to a comfortable 2-0 win. Hull's first goal was a 3 v 1 situation for part of the build up. We had 5 players ahead of the ball in the first phase. It was still a quality ball which opened us up, but after we went 1-0 down it was game over. We all knew it. They is absolutely no fight in the side. They just didn't want to know. My fear is that so many think we're safe, that no one can see the potential danger we are in. Had we done the business yesterday, we would be mathematically safe, but that's not the case now. We are 9 clear of Swansea and 7 clear of Hull. All other sides are within 1 to 5 points of us. We have a nightmare run-in now. I cannot see us picking up a point and maybe not even a goal in our final 5 games. Sure that sounds super negative, but this team gives me zero hope of anything better. We will probably stay up, we may even still pick up some points, but we are in a more uncomfortable position than many believe. Look at Swansea's or Hull's run-in. I can see them all picking up a lot of points in their final few games. If we lose the lot, then I think we'll either go down or finish 17th by the narrowest of margins, maybe even GD will be important. I know I will get the usual tonne of stick, because I can see things others do not, or others do not think are possible. But I've watched football for a long time, and I know a team that's fighting for survival, who string a few good results together, are dangerous. A mid-table team that has switched off for the summer can be caught, and before they know it they have to win their final game. Ours is Man City at home.....and good luck with that.
Are Swansea more likely to beat Man U and Everton than we are to beat Leicester and maybe pick up a point elsewhere? Btw I think the likes of Abdi and FF plus some of those in the 80s had more technical ability than anyone we have now (who is fit)... Just a personal opinion of course and certainly there are issues to be resolved over the summer. We seem incapable of getting back into a game - Is that down to motivation/skill or tactics?
We'll stay up. Yes things can change before the flash of an eye, but there are still too many teams in between us and 18th place (with some of those teams having to play each other) before we go down. It won't happen. Also I'll say this, you're right in that we need a head coach that can properly motivate his comfortable players. However, you've said it yourself that these players we've got now lack hunger and desire. Getting a new head coach that will motivate this rabble will only paper over the cracks before one of two inevitable things happens: the head coach is poached by a bigger club (e.g. Koeman leaving Soton for Everton) or we go through a bad patch (which happens to every head coach/manager irrespective of ability to motivate/manage, even the great man up in the sky). We can't sack the head coach without addressing this player problem
We are safe. Swansea wont win 3 of their last 4 games. My biggest concern is that this apathetic attitude could carry through to the start of next season which would be tremendously more dangerous to our premier league status.
Man, HB1 is really really really having to try hard this week as no-one has been biting. Don't let it slip guys.
This was a massive problem under Quique as well; the statistic was something like that we didn't win a single a game that we went behind in first last season. That was at least the case until pretty late into the season. Early signs this year, such as West Ham, made it appear that we had turned a corner, but we evidently haven't. It's a good point, and the general ethos and attitude, as well as the players, must bear a fair bit of responsibility for it.
If Burnley and Palace lose today they will need to win at least 2 (4/5) of their remaining games to catch us and they face each other in one of them. As Meh says the bigger issue might be next season .. Ofcourse Swansea have to find 2 more points than Hull before anyone else gets into trouble! They will both beat Sunderland so the Swans will have to beat one of Everton, Man U or WBA just to pass Hull. Hull have Saints, Spurs and Palace to play..
When I look at the squad I don't see that many ways in which we can change things during a game if something isn't working. Mazzarri being extremely conservative doesn't help much either.
