Wfc Finances

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by We hate 48, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    How much of a profit would we have made on those players? Cucho was contracted to us for ages and was only sold for about £8m IIRC (with Getafe paying a £1m loan fee the season before he came here I believe), and Suarez was similar (with a possible sell-on fee when he went to Marseille?)
  2. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    Fairplay; evidence is one way to go, but you've taken another. Huzzah.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  3. reids

    reids First Team

    Cucho cost £200k and was sold for €9.55m
    Estupinan cost €500k and was sold for €16.4m
    Richarlison cost €12.4m and was sold for €39.2m

    Can't find anything on Suarez's initial fee but can't imagine that we paid anything more than €2m for him (sold for €7m). Imagine we'll make a hefty profit on Asprilla (€3m) and JP (€11.5m) as well
  4. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    I mean how much would we have been paying in wages? He'd have been on decent money I imagine when he was playing for us, and I don't imagine his Spanish clubs would have been paying much of his wages (though I could be wrong), and I'd have thought there'd be a sell-on fee for his Colombian club involved (see also: Suárez). All told, we'll probably only make a small profit on JP when you include wages and bonuses, although I retain some hope we can get big money for Asprilla
  5. reids

    reids First Team

    Ah I see, I might be wrong but I'm not sure if Cucho ever signed a contract extension? If not then I can't imagine his wages would've been too bad, would be surprised if they were much more than 8k a week or so, which is about £2m over the course of a 5 year contract. That's one of the big benefits about buying youngsters from South America, the increase in wages seems massive for them but is still relatively small in comparison to their European counterparts.

    For example it's rumoured that before Brightons Caicedo signed his new contract the other week that he was only on somewhere between 5k-10k a week (depending on which source you trust)
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  6. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    For wages info I always rely on @LaClusazSki
  7. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Did he not sign one just before he went on loan to Getafe? Or am I getting him mixed up with Dahlberg? His initial contract would have been relative pennies, but I guess it starts to add up over time, especially when you add in various clauses and bonuses and extensions
  8. reids

    reids First Team

    Ah yeah he did, imagine that would've bumped his wages up to the 15k-20k a week range
  9. TomWatfordFC

    TomWatfordFC Reservist

  10. WatfordDH

    WatfordDH Academy Graduate

    I had a look at the filings for Year End June 2022 and it's what I expected. We're operating at a loss and have a large debt. There was some information in the notes that mentioned the owner will look to improve the stadium facilities with investment within 12 months, whether true or not we'll never know. So all in all, what we all thought. When compared to the previous years we at least have reduced the wage bill so that's a bonus. The promotion season of 2021 had wage-to-revenue of 115% but the season in the prem reduced it to 61%. Will be interested in next years to look at this seasons %.

    Find it here:
    Chumlax likes this.
  11. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

  12. TomWatfordFC

    TomWatfordFC Reservist

    Since the end of the year (so July onwards) we have made an income on player disposals / terminations of £24,462,000 and have commited to payments of £8,089,000 for new player acquisitions.
    PowerJugs likes this.
  13. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Any chance someone could summarise for idiots like myself?

    Are we just a little bit up **** creek? Or are we so far up it that we are beginning to see the small bowel?
    PowerJugs and EB Hornet like this.
  14. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    And the 2022 accounts are now out-

    Highlights (lowlights!)

    Trading-we lost £16m despite revenue up to £128m (from £57m). Wages up to £79m from £66m so not bad for being in PL but "other" costs -cash out the door was £44m -previous year £28m and when last in PL they were £30m in 2020 and £38m in 2019-they are not wages nor player amortisation-who knows what they represent-accounts says "football related"

    Debt-£36m borrowed against transfer fees owed £46m (must exclude Kamara as this was post June 22)
    -£54m owed on transfer fees
    -£46m owed to Gino (via Hornets Investment) -down £25m from 2021
    -£77m in secured loans -presumably PL money
    £213m total

    Duxbury paid £970k

    What does this mean-well its 9 months old and in line with previous operations we have borrowed against everything we can-Gino paid back £25m to his company. If/when we dont go up where is the income derived from to pay wages and "other expenses". The secured lenders get their money back from income due.

    Still Duxbury did say he was not concerned about our debt-thank goodness for that
    scummybear likes this.
  15. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

  16. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    Edit-the loan of £46m owed to Hornets Investment Ltd might well be the same as owed to Gino in 2021-its £71m in 2021 as it included both Gino's £46m as well as another £25m from XVIII Capital -since repaid by taking the £50m from Maquarie bank (secured on PL revenue payments)-in the interests of balance and ahead of the filing of the accounts of Hornets Investment Ltd-which is owned by Diversify Sports Investment based in Luxembourg and owned by Gino.
  17. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    On the spectrum below, where do you think we lie or will lie next year:

    1. Commercial juggernaut (Spurs)
    2. Well-run medium sized club, aka Best of the Rest (Brentford)
    3. Healthy and stable championship club
    4. Dependent on owner continue to stump up cash which they do (Boro, Stoke) or promotion to plump up revenues (Bournemouth under prior ownership)
    5. Owner won’t stump up cash but club stable and afloat without a pot to piss in (Swansea)
    6. Likely to get in trouble with the EFL but unlikely to face administration (Reading, Birmingham)
    7. Administration (Wigan, Derby)
    8. Cease to exist (Bury, Everton should they get relegated per their auditors).

    Personally I reckon we’re somewhere between 4 and 5 but I am not an accountant and haven’t read the accounts.
    cyaninternetdog likes this.
  18. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Would love to know the other expenses and why they are out of whack with other teams. £44m is a new high.
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  19. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Honestly no idea how we will avoid administration if we don’t get promoted or new investment (why would anyone invest?).
    scummybear and Jumbolina like this.
  20. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Failure to get promoted this season or next and I agree. This season is already gone, so our eggs are all in one basket to get to the premier league.
  21. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    No chance this will happen with our owners. We’re very fortunate to have them.
    CarlosKickaballs and Jumbolina like this.
  22. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    Investors invest in sports assets due to scarcity and prestige. In the US you actually make money but v few teams in Europe do.

    Regardless of our debt, we would still be attractive due to recent PL stint, proximity to London and availability. That said, at this point there must be quite a few championship teams that would be more attractive for investment.

    Everton’s accounts today said there was a very real chance of being unable to continue as a going concern in the event of relegation. Which is quite something. Either we have less conservative auditors, or the fact that such a statement was not included means that our auditors think we are further from administration than many fans do.
  23. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Everton will be fine due to the wealth of their owners.
    Someone may want to buy us but the price will be though the floor now and I can’t see anyone offering an attractive price for Pozzo to sell.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  24. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    Is that additional debt to existing total, current amount factoring that? There was a lot of talk about debt restructure / payments when last promoted. *IF* this current debt, then sales of Pedro, Sarr and potential misc. (ie: WTE) will serve us another Season at least. If additional to existing debt total, that's very bad.
  25. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    The auditors don’t agree. Moshiri wants to sell up (no wonder) and Usmanov is sanctioned so...
  26. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Why would proximity to London be attractive to an owner? They're not going to live here. And it's a mythical for players too - they'll go where the money is. Closeness to London means there's a ceiling for our club of about 20,000 fans due to the gravitational pull of a London clubs. Similarly, not sure recently being in the Premier League means anything, we won't have any Premier League quality players here next season.
    CarlosKickaballs and Jumbolina like this.
  27. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    The auditors have to qualify until the funds are committed. There’s zero chance a club the size of Everton won’t be funded / sold to someone who will fund. They aren’t a Bury.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  28. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    We’re talking about trophy assets here. Would you rather jet into London or Sunderland when watching your club or hosting billionaire pals. Similar point re recent PL prestige. Much cooler to buy something your buddies have heard of.
  29. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    I think they’d be in worse shape than us financially IF they go down. That wage bill alone will be hard to shift.
    PowerJugs likes this.
  30. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Balance sheet negative £35m. Given we revalued the stadium and training ground a few years back a bit of a worry. Which players have greater value than carrying value? JP for sure. Asprilla. I guess Kamara £12m boost not included or Cucho? Guess on that basis we can get back to above zero but looks bleak.
  31. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Bigger losses and bigger debts for sure. But a richer owner who would have a greater interest in keeping the club alive. What is Everton football club worth as a club ? The asset value would justify investing a good few £100ms to keep it going and seeing it back in the prem before selling.
  32. IRB

    IRB THe artist formally know as ImRonBurgundy?

    Ben Manga will find some new investment gems in Europe

    Here’s to you Pozzo family!
  33. BeersThen

    BeersThen Reservist

    I'd say 9
  34. BeersThen

    BeersThen Reservist

    Worth every penny / cent.
  35. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    How can we be #4? The Pozzos are neither rich enough, nor do they have any attachment to the area to bankroll us like Gibson, the Coates or the Venkys. No idea how much money the Swansea owners have, but anywhere from 5-7 is most likely to me

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